It is also the reason Achaea got rid of guilds.

The reason why I'm here not Achaea is a fairly simple one:

Achaea's RP has become an absolute joke.

Do you really want us to take that lowest common denominator route..? All the Geomancer Apprentices have to do is travel the basin a bit, write a short personal history and research a little bit of the Basin's culture. If we abandon that sort of RP groundwork.. we're going to lose everything about Lusternia that makes it worthwhile to me.

I really think you miss the point. Essays don't equate to more intellectual or "better" roleplay.

It rather depends on the nature of the essay. To elucidate: in the Geomancers, you have to write a few character-defining essays (and when I say essay I mean paragraph). If you then decide to go down the combat path.. you basically never have to write another one. If you decide to go down the Scholarship route.. then well.. then you have to write a few more.. but it was your decision to do so. Either way, by the time a new player gets more established in the Basin, they should have made a few decisions about themselves from which a fully fledged RP can grow.

So they have to write an essay as a novice to actually get promoted into the guild?

No. The Novice test only requires a description, 3 vials, and knowledge of city geography. This is as an Apprentice - the GR1 first title.

I'm just going to butt in here...Asarnil, earlier you said that a problem with Magnagora is that there's always something has to be done.

In a year and a (whatever)'s experience, I've noticed that Serenwilde flourishes more in the seasons when we have things to protect and to do
than when we're left to our own devices.

EDIT: I think part of it is Ialie's fault though, she gives Seren a really good outlet to get involved that we never used to have before. But there's also the odd attack on Faethorn that our combatants can get involved with, the villages seem to be actually REVOLTING (I'm not sure if it's going to tinkle out again soon, I haven't been paying attention, SHORLEN YOU'RE UP) and the spaceships helped.

And yea, I love Narsrim's ==== thing, more people need to do it. Only not me, 'cause I can't be arsed.

Remember the magic rule™: Imagine yourself having to do it.

You might think its easy, but the new players coming into the geomancers may not. Do you pressure people into doing it? How many people have submitted things that needed to be redone? Have you considered dropping the requirement to see if active membership rose?

Darlings, I love you all. However, before you give me lessons in how to run the Geomancers, perhaps you should create an alt there for yourselves and actually pick things up first hand. I simply don't have the time or the inclination to defend myself from what looks liable to become a series of allegations of incompetence, especially when it seems likely that a large portion of the finger-pointing is going to be done by people without first hand experience. Go. Make alts. Increase the Novice score. You might even like it there.

This is further exemplification of a major fact regarding Magnagora and the other orgs. As several people have aforementioned, Magnagora has such an upkeep of duties that it rather hard to have fun edgewise, unless of course you don't give a crap about the city.

Er...how was my comment "exemplification" of that? Sounded like you were disagreeing with my implication, which is that a mixture (or even leaning more heavily towards being overworked) is healthier. When Faethorn was being raided 16/7, Serenwilde suffered. But I think it suffered -more- when we weren't being raided at all, and nothing really was going on.

What does Magnagora have to "do" for upkeep anymore than Serenwilde, Celest, or Glomdoring?

Was curious about that too... Well, other then the turtle/seawolf thing and the gorgog thing which the communes don't have to worry about *peer communes* but that leaves Celest. They sure have a lot of titans considering how "busy" they all are


Edit: Although communes have faethorn, not sure whats involved in that.

Aiakon already responded, but I wanted to add. The novices exam is completely optional, and they can graduate without it. It just takes off 10 hours, and the guild is more than willing to practically hold a novice's hand and walk them through it. I almost passed someone who couldn't find Rheimos or the Guild hall the other day until she started setting up random icewalls.

Granted, I did the Earth path after having been in the guild/leading it for a year, so I had a bit of an advantage. I found it rather enjoyable, because I hadn't really thought a good deal on Veo's actual history, but as for the rest of it, it was easy. Take us to some villages, get some vials, debate a bit for practice, and spar a few people. Personally, I found the sparring to be the worst part, the essays are a joke.

And the thing about not having fun holds true. I found when I was able to play more often over break that when I was ready to log in and actually do something -fun- and more cultural, I had to go defend Nil or kill Marilynth. Not so fun.

I had more to say but ran out of time.

As for things we had to do.

Necromentate and spiking, anyone.

Aiakon,

Please don't take my post as an attack on you. I was merely fishing for more information, which you/Veonira/others have provided.

More than Celest? Acutally nothing: the two are in a similar boat. Between the communes now, there's:

the gorgog rift

the sea quest that's VERY active (though thankfully MUCH easier than Old Faethorn. I'd rather have to shut off the Song every week than sit..and sit..and sit in Faethorn 24/7),

the spike quest, which is long and drawn out,

defend Nil which is much easier to assault (unlike the Avatars),

and defend Earth.

All of which is added on to the normal power quests and village protection that everyone has to do. You gain ALOT for doing them, but, at the same time, you MUST do them to keep the city going.

So yah, there's alot to do and every one of them takes a good half-hour to an hour to complete. It's easy to get overwhelmed, especially when it's all happening at the same time (which happens at times, as you're well aware of ).

Hey, that is actually fun for quite a long while. The guilds should expend a bigger effort to inform new guild members of the Necromentate/spectre quests, as those are very benefitial to new players. I personally found out about them by pure accident and was fairly mad that no one told me about them from the start, as I'd be all over those quests 24/7.

In general, it seems to me that Magnagora is putting too much emphasis on established members when it comes to completing the "quest requirements" and too little on using those for whom those quests seem to be naturally designed. As a result, established members are wasting their time on something that doesn't benefit them personally in any significant way, while the lowbies are missing out on true gold mines.

Oh please, everyone knows that you were just having an attack on the Furrikins because I left the guild the month beforehand (yes it was like 1 day later you had that post up), and I proved that Furrikin Geomancers are pretty damned hot and sexy (especially for bashing - at L80 I had as much ego powering my forcefield as your average L80 Igasho did).

Here is only a couple of the things that Magnagora usually has to do on a monthly basis:
Spiking the necromantate - if we don't keep at it regularly it starts attacking anyone in the city
Closing the Gorgog rift - that thing is open more often than a fat mans mouth at a buffet (was going to use a different analogy but that woulda got me smacked by the admin - I am sure you coulda guessed the one I was gonna use though). This isn't too bad if the right guys from Celest are around - Asarnil was working pretty hard with Ekard a few months back to close it.
Raising Ladantine (this usually happens at LEAST 3-4 times a month).

Look at the quests for all of them, apart from the spiking which is decent experience and is useful to the people doing it, the quests for the others are long and involved and are about as much fun as having a wart removed from your foot (they use a scalpel for that and slowly cut it out over a few weeks).

Not to mention that even if all of them are being done, we can't go off and do village questing or influencing, because unless the territory belongs to us or Glomdoring, we get bitched at or enemied just because we are Magnagoran wether we have actually done something against that org or not.

Do you know when the last time Asarnil was on where the rift was closed and Ladantine was raised at the same time? Well I don't bloody know because I can't remember that far back. Hell, even when they do both eventually get done I am lucky I can sit around the city relaxing for half an hour without being forced to go off and do something else for the city.

Couple things:

1. Whereas Magnagora has to gather spikes, Celest has to gather supplicants... Serenwilde and Glomdoring gather Fae and pixies/crows (we have to keep our flame/drum powered too). As far as Fae go, you have to basically go through Faethorn (which is 83 rooms, I believe) on ground, in th air, and in trees. It is pretty tedious, and I know that I could bash out spectre isle by myself in the same amount of time it takes to comb faethorn, get cakes, get fae, lead them back, etc.

2. Closing the gorgog rift isn't that hard. It is really a matter of timing. It truly all comes down to one mob being alive. If he's alive, you can get the more irritating part, which lasts long enough for 1-3 resets on the rest so you can just bide your time to close it. I know this because its the same quest to open it - which I frequently do.

3. As for raising Ladantine, I'm totally unsure there.

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As for Communes, every day I get the blessed task of walking around checking totems. I then have to consult my master list, figure out who has what bonded, what isn't bonded, if it isn't bonded who needs to rebond it, and then message people. It takes a great deal of time because the damn things all seem to unbond at the same time or close to it. Other people watch totems too.

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I really don't see how the spectre isle quest takes up so much time. I was in Magnagora when the Necromentate was discovered and while sometimes tedious, it isn't that hard to do. In fact, it wasn't something I recall anyone ever being forced to do as the bashing on spectre isle is pretty decent so there were usually people going to bash and doing it just because it was good experience/gold.

As for closing the gorgog rift, no one can get away with saying that two cities are just swamped to keep it closed. I usually open it - I'm a single person. If I can find 15 minutes to breeze through and open it, I imagine Celest/Magnagora as a whole can find 15 minutes to close it (and it really takes no longer if you are on the ball).

So where is all this upkeep? I just don't see it.

Those quests are fun, however I was talking more about the multiple times we've had to re-raise the Necromentate and regain our spikes from scratch, which for some people who have done it repeatedly can be a chore. I know the Geomancers had a spiking contest, and we have extensive information on how to do the quest. Hell, even I still do them for experience and gold.

Narsrim. Spiking isn't just killing spectres. Then you have to go give things to different people, hunt down beggars, etc. I've gathered crows in Glom before and found it much easier. Not saying spectres are hard, but it's not like novices can run out and spike.

Raising ladantine is irritating having to find the components to raise him in the sea, knowing that someone could easily just come kill him on a whim.

As for closing the rift, the times I've tried it people have killed or taken things I needed. It's easy for you to say, oh well I can do it, but the situation is different when wanting to open it when it's closed and wanting to close it when it's open, because someone is more inclined to make sure it can't be closed if they opened it to begin with. Of course this can be argued that someone will want to keep it closed, but at least then it's not detrimental having it closed.

I just realized I didn't really address the idea of upkeep. I don't think Magnagora has more in terms of general upkeep than any other city or commune in Lusternia, I think the feeling is more that there's always something that needs to be done. I don't have any alts, so I can't say what it's like in another place, but I know that's how it feels at times.