Narsrim2006-02-17 07:36:28
Dude, I solo'ed gorgulu as a dwarf with that same cutting resistance. It starts with other defenses (like putrefaction and demonscales for Nihilists) for some amazing resistance.
Furthermore, Viscanti have poison gas as an attack. THATS INSANE. Hunger attacks are nasty, and they get it as a racial weapon (compare that to bearhug or breathe fire).
Furthermore, Viscanti have poison gas as an attack. THATS INSANE. Hunger attacks are nasty, and they get it as a racial weapon (compare that to bearhug or breathe fire).
Unknown2006-02-17 07:37:30
True but we're talking about the races, not just Viscanti who have taken Necromancy.
Narsrim2006-02-17 07:40:14
It also makes geomancer tankier than any other mages... and they get free level 3 regen anywhere. The race is fine.
Unknown2006-02-17 08:28:22
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 17 2006, 01:35 AM) 259282
(12 base +2 beauty + 2 throne + 1-3 lion + 1 netzah + 1 populus)
I forgot about netzah and populus
Lowmagic had that completely useless winter skill for awhile there that was, I assume, ment to be used in villages to counter the cities.
Edit:To be fair though, if you count all of the races charisma stats with the highmagic bonuses you should count the faeling/elfen with the lowmagic bonuses added.
Aiakon2006-02-17 09:45:07
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 17 2006, 06:08 AM) 259264
I don't understand how a level 3 regeneration in chosen terrain plus far more constitution equates to a "penalty." As has been said, Viscanti will sip for more health than a High Elfen or Imperial Merian of the same level so...
I'm going to make a little confession here.
Aiakon was a Master Viscanti
He's now a Human.
He maintains a Viscanti glamour at all times.
The way I see it, Aiakon was a very-humanlike Viscanti (bar the horns). He's now a very Tainted Human.. still with horns. He was always borderline, either way.. and I was curious to see if I'd get better stats.
My health gain seems to be better as a human... but not much better. The sip penalty and the lv 3 regeneration seem to pretty much cancel each other out. However, it -is- nice (in an OOC way) to be able to bash no matter what the room type. There's no necessity for me to waste power tainting everything now.. just to have someone flood/forest it back ten minutes later.
Unknown2006-02-17 10:34:45
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Feb 17 2006, 04:45 AM) 259352
There's no necessity for me to waste power tainting everything now.. just to have someone flood/forest it back ten minutes later.
muwhahaha, that's right, stop tainting the basin, grind the megalith into dirt and grow trees in it, woot!
Aiakon2006-02-17 10:41:37
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Feb 17 2006, 10:34 AM) 259360
muwhahaha, that's right, stop tainting the basin, grind the megalith into dirt and grow trees in it, woot!
I prefer to think of it as... conserving the Megalith's power so that it can be unleashed in one big Tainting move. Just when you think you have the upper hand...
Unknown2006-02-17 10:43:52
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Feb 17 2006, 05:41 AM) 259361
I prefer to think of it as... conserving the Megalith's power so that it can be unleashed in one big Tainting move. Just when you think you have the upper hand...
meanie
Narsrim2006-02-17 11:46:16
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Feb 17 2006, 05:41 AM) 259361
I prefer to think of it as... conserving the Megalith's power so that it can be unleashed in one big Tainting move. Just when you think you have the upper hand...
Tomorrow, the Mother Moonhart is just in time when she passes the Megalith of Doom. Opperation "Gorgogs for the Win" has been successful. Your mass tainting moving will never stand against her and her almighty more power than all other nexuses in the Basin :cheerleader kick:
Verithrax2006-02-17 13:50:24
QUOTE(Nokraenom @ Feb 16 2006, 06:28 AM) 258813
Glomdoring has an equal opportunity to influence Angkrag as does Magnagora. Any other statement is patently untrue.
Nihilists (necromancy required) - Blacktalon (crow required)
Ur'guard (necromancy optional) - Ebonguard (crow optional)
Geomancers (no necromancy) - Shadowdancer (no crow)
The numerical mechanics are equal between Glom and Mag. Mastery and the Crow cloak are both the first skills in their respective skillset, as well. The difference is that the cloaks cost 10 power to create, whereas Mastery is free, but cloaks are transferrable whereas Mastery is not. Sounds pretty fair to me.
If you want to argue whether Celest or Seren have a fair shot at it, then it's obvious they don't, but whoever holds Angkrag can't influence Rockholm or Southgard, so the advantage for Glom and Mag, though noticeable, isn't overbearing.
There's a slight discrepancy there; first, most Ur'Guard will take Necromancy, while most Ebonguard will take Night. The reason is that, due to Druid/Wiccan balance issues, Night is stronger than Crow. Second, gathering crow feathers takes valuable minutes, during which Magnagora already has enough of an advantage. Third, Glomdoring has little or no reason to take Angkrag.
Unknown2006-02-17 17:07:22
Why would Glomdoring have little or no reason to take Angkrag?
ferlas2006-02-17 17:21:36
Aside from magnagora outnumbering us and having a demigods demensce, no reason what so ever that I can see.
Unknown2006-02-17 18:34:10
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Feb 17 2006, 07:01 AM) 259255
There's been a thread on that too, and it was found out (to the dismay of some and chagrin of others) that Viscanti actually sip MORE health then an equivalent of their class in another nation. Much bigger con+sip penalty=still slightly more health sip.
Seeing that, it's clear the current health sip is a needed 'check and balance' thing for viscanti.
You're forgetting that with more health, you receive more damage.
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 17 2006, 08:30 AM) 259308
What? There is a 3 charisma difference between Imperian Merians and Viscanti. There is a 3 con difference between Imperian Merians and Viscanti.
It is pretty much dead on balanced. Likewise, Viscanti get insane resistances (physical resistances are huge). The race is fine.
Let's look at Intelligence then. 15 for Master Viscanti, 18 for Imperial Merian. Where does that fit if you're comparing stats like that.
Narsrim2006-02-17 18:54:12
The more health more damage argument is moot and used to mislead people:
Given the following:
Person A - Max health of 100
Person B - Max health of 1000
Let's assume attack X deals 50 base damage + 10%
Person A takes 60 damage.
Person B takes 150 damage.
==============================================
HOWEVER!
60/100 >>>>>>>> 150/1000
So even though person B is taking more damage, person A is far more injured.
Given the following:
Person A - Max health of 100
Person B - Max health of 1000
Let's assume attack X deals 50 base damage + 10%
Person A takes 60 damage.
Person B takes 150 damage.
==============================================
HOWEVER!
60/100 >>>>>>>> 150/1000
So even though person B is taking more damage, person A is far more injured.
Unknown2006-02-17 19:52:17
Let's take a more real example then, because yours is completely skewed.
Person A has 3000 health and person B has 4000 health. They sip for the same amount, on average.
Attack deals 300+10% damage. It means:
Person A takes 600 damage which is 20% of her max health.
Person B takes 700 damage which is 17.5% of her max health.
Now the sip:
Let's assume the sip is 600:
Person A heals everything - 20%.
Person B heals 600 - 15%, which leaves her at 100 damage (2.5%).
Or let's assume the sip is 500:
Person A heals 16.5% and it leaves her at 100 damage (3.3%).
Person B heals 12.5% and it leaves her at 200 damage (5%).
Argument isn't moot.
The fact it's designed the way that more health is beneficial, despite of damage being partially based on max health, is obvious, but when you take lvl2 sipping penalty into account, it's not so obvious anymore.
It reduces the advantage significantly, even to the point where you could argue someone with less health is more tanky than someone with more health but also with a penalty. Even if not so, advantage could be very slim.
Person A has 3000 health and person B has 4000 health. They sip for the same amount, on average.
Attack deals 300+10% damage. It means:
Person A takes 600 damage which is 20% of her max health.
Person B takes 700 damage which is 17.5% of her max health.
Now the sip:
Let's assume the sip is 600:
Person A heals everything - 20%.
Person B heals 600 - 15%, which leaves her at 100 damage (2.5%).
Or let's assume the sip is 500:
Person A heals 16.5% and it leaves her at 100 damage (3.3%).
Person B heals 12.5% and it leaves her at 200 damage (5%).
Argument isn't moot.
The fact it's designed the way that more health is beneficial, despite of damage being partially based on max health, is obvious, but when you take lvl2 sipping penalty into account, it's not so obvious anymore.
It reduces the advantage significantly, even to the point where you could argue someone with less health is more tanky than someone with more health but also with a penalty. Even if not so, advantage could be very slim.
Narsrim2006-02-17 19:55:43
Ok, think of it like this.
There is a +3 con difference from a Master Viscanti to an Imperial Merian. The difference in health between the two at the same level is going to be extreme and only get worse. The sip, however, is just 20% less for the Master Viscanti. While at lower levels, it is true that the net difference is going to roughly be the same, at around 80+ it won't be. Furthermore once you factor in the level 3 regen in taint, Viscanti are going to be healing far more than Imperial Merian of the same level.
There is a +3 con difference from a Master Viscanti to an Imperial Merian. The difference in health between the two at the same level is going to be extreme and only get worse. The sip, however, is just 20% less for the Master Viscanti. While at lower levels, it is true that the net difference is going to roughly be the same, at around 80+ it won't be. Furthermore once you factor in the level 3 regen in taint, Viscanti are going to be healing far more than Imperial Merian of the same level.
Shamarah2006-02-17 19:56:50
Kashim - wrong, because your sip increases when your health increases.
Narsrim2006-02-17 19:59:37
That's true too.
Unknown2006-02-17 20:14:18
Sipping penalty also increases, along with the sipping amount, as it's percentage based.
I just did a little calculation:
Person A has 12 con and no penalty.
Person B has 15 con and lvl2 penalty.
Level 50:
A: Health: 2300, sip: 445
B: Health: 2750, sip: 409
Level 80:
A. Health: 3500, sip: 625
B. Health: 4420, sip: 610
I predict sips will be even at... level 100 or so. Woot.
I just did a little calculation:
Person A has 12 con and no penalty.
Person B has 15 con and lvl2 penalty.
Level 50:
A: Health: 2300, sip: 445
B: Health: 2750, sip: 409
Level 80:
A. Health: 3500, sip: 625
B. Health: 4420, sip: 610
I predict sips will be even at... level 100 or so. Woot.
Shamarah2006-02-17 20:53:49
QUOTE(Kashim @ Feb 17 2006, 03:14 PM) 259501
Sipping penalty also increases, along with the sipping amount, as it's percentage based.
I just did a little calculation:
Person A has 12 con and no penalty.
Person B has 15 con and lvl2 penalty.
Level 50:
A: Health: 2300, sip: 445
B: Health: 2750, sip: 409
Level 80:
A. Health: 3500, sip: 625
B. Health: 4420, sip: 610
I predict sips will be even at... level 100 or so. Woot.
Soo... you get the same sip but more health? How is that bad?