think is you still need access to a pentagram/alembic, pitty they removed those two as manse artifacts.

Why do you access to an alembic to buy bromides and such at Bob?

bob's bromides aren't really a solution, he can run out (has happened before) and is way to expensive to compete with a commune.

Also I believe laetitia and puella where originally meaned to be the city's potions for times when communes got all nasty like.

Quick note from my experiences in Stewartsville (last village I was able to be on for):

Viscanti (especially Brood Viscanti) are extremely poor in debating. Versus a good faeling I may have some trouble, but versus a room full of brood viscanti with laetitia, I can defensively debate them all out even WITH them chanting each other (and nobody chanting me). I can also keep diverting throughout that mess. Add someoneone casting laetitia on top of that and it's pretty much over. I'd be able to divert every single round, never even need to eat a sparkleberry and rarely need to sip...

A good faeling debater is a lot harder to stay on the defensive with, but with an enchanter? As Anisu just showed, it's basically an extra sip. It's not too hard to stay ahead of them unless you lose a lot in a row.

So, hm, a point. Laetitia is overpowered and charisma is overpowered.

Firstly, my apologies for not reading this as full as it can be: I was in that revolt for a good 8 hours and i'm tired.

Chanting: What probably makes chanting so annoying is that it can be done when shattered. As such, you shatter 4 people and suddenly the city gets 4 dedicated chanters for 10 minutes.

If you make chanting require an unshattered ego, I bet ALOT of the problems will go away.

And for the record, I'd say when i was getting chanted, I would heal somewhere between 200-800 at a time (depending on the chanter). Note that's with 1 chanter. More chanters essentually does nothing.

The 4+ chantfests you see done is nothing more than a waste of energy and people. You see it more with Celest since I'm constantly on the Mag's case on spreading ourselves out.

*twitch* *twitch* I didn't realize it was THAT good, at lvl 78 with 5000ish ego(lion +1/beauty blessing+2 ) I'm only sipping bromide at 1000-1500, and laetitia at... wait I'm not in a city

without your faeling bonus you'd be sipping bromide at that much ego at as low as 881ego per sip...

Is there really any reason chanting is ment to DOUBLE your ego restoration?

Edit:The only thing I can think of is the admins want the cities to have most of the villages for RP reasons.


ah, so it's like moonlight then, completely useless

Take a look at politics - it obviously isn't a huge imbalance and there is more important things that need changing right now.

Gah, I agree with Torak.

Laetitia is nothing when you're taking over 2000 ego damage from a good hit. Vesar played his cards right and did ok. He still got shattered a few times. Nico rarely had a chanter on him and nailed a number of SW's top debaters.

Want to talk about fairness or imbalance? Let's clear demenses when a village revolts. Automatic sweep. In a peaced village, this would be great. Flow is strong locally while others are forced to walk around.

We also shouldn't be able to divert and debate. Works for me.

When are we going to learn that each organization has certain strengths and weaknesses? I'll say this though. Laetitia isn't one of those 'strengths'. Each org is not the same. I remember when all of you argued for flow when it -was- a huge advantage. I hated how it got nerfed to hell, but Mag/Celest players agreed that it was necessary.

Get over it, ick.

With someone chanting Laetitia on me, I can heal over 2000 ego per hit. I don't see your point.

Narsrim, you have a pretty nice sip.

What's my solution? Oh, you might say, go get level 98888888888888 and stfu? I just don't find laetitia to be a strength. And chanting for one's self certainly isn't very beneficial even if you're playing it safe, defensively. It requires eq to switch mindsets and to chant. It's great when you have a chanter, sure.

We can buff our charisma in more ways than one and we want to cry about nerfing laetitia. Faelings and elfen do quite alright.

Let's nerf moonbeam in villages too. We have monoliths to deal with. Flow too. Oh my god, Seren has an advantage. That won't do!

I'm serious. Do you really honestly feel that it's a big deal?

Malicia you know I'm all for people having different advantages and disadvantages, I don't want to bring that into question. The reason I started the thread is to see if everyone thinks this particular advantage is too great, to gauge whether it needs to be adjusted.

Just wanted to make that clear...

Edit: In my (Asarnil's) opinion they are talking about nerfing skills that I believe haven't been tested, looked at properly, or inaccurate opinions have developed about.

Seriously, in one on one Laetitia is useless unless you are timing your chants to go off after you change mindsets, and even in normal debating its rarely a factor - I have lost even more battles WITH a chanter than I have without.

1. stop these stupid size 7 posts before moderators have to stop you.

2. one on one laetita can be very usefull, pure defensive debating while being able to chant, sip bromide and eat sparkleberry is very hard to beat.

Well, that really shows an intelligent response to the topic.

Can a chanter keep you at maximum ego even during multiple successive losses in a debate? Yes.

Without a chanter, can you remain at maximum ego during multiple successive losses in a debate? No.

Therefore, it is a balance issue.

Bearing similarties to your usual wacky, off the wall, retarded ideas, Avaer- You have no idea what you're talking about.

Ahhh. Excellent, well argued point.

I'll just leave it to the evidence already given by multiple people that even winning in a debate did not stop a target from being able to divert, if they had a chanting team.

Don't most high-ego people usually lose a debate when its a 1-hit kill anyway? A chanter can't protect you from that.

A-Freaking-Men.

I rarely, if ever, lose to a 1-hit kill.

That's practically the only way to win a debate against someone decent. Or two high-damage hits in quick succession.