As long as there is some means of preventing the effect of chanters, then its an advantage we can all live with. As there is not, I find it an issue.

Only idiots lose to one-hit kills if they have over a certain threshold of ego. I have not lost to a one-hit kill in a VERY long time, and I lose often. It's multiple losses in a row that shatter me.

Exactly.

Ok, then where's my skill to prevent the effect of Transmigration? And don't give me the "You can kill my pet!" when there are safe rooms you can place it in, which is the same reason you can't just kill the chanter.

Or where's my skill to negate the effects of StagForm?

Oor my skill to dispel your totem spirits?

Ooor my skill that prevents you from entering Dreamform? Or actually killing you once you are in dreamform?

Not everything needs a counter.

-ownage-


The communes have access to transmigration. THIS IS AN INJUSTICE. I demand a similar ability for sake of BALANCE!

So do I, actually.

And resurgem as well.

Thanks!

Wyrd.


Edit- Never heard anything about how overpowered laetitia was from the Seren side when they'd have Celestians chanting for them during revolts.

I know I'm going to regret hitting unignore... but,

Transmigration is unblockable, unstoppable, and absolutely certain to save all experience. If you expect me to justify it, you can keep waiting. I'm planning to suggest something about it in the next envoy report. If you're curious, ask me about it personally. I don't feel the need to defend what is obviously unbalanced.


You want a way to decrease health regeneration? I'm with you there, I'd love to be able to use it on Viscanti in taint. It's not exactly a commune advantage, however. And the dex, I think we have enough stat bonuses that its hardly unique either. I'd also dispute in which particular situation it gives a large and undeniable advantage to a stag user over any other.


Also in my report.


It's called Violet/Kether.

Once again, we can throw around the differences between this organization and that all day, and claim that this little advantage over here justifies that little advantage in a totally different area. But it doesn't work like that.

In village influence, having multiple chanters -does- make a big difference.


Actually, it was discussed quite a bit. Before and after the balance change.

Oh, hey, and Asarnil? I've had laetitia for a long time. Longer than I've had a demesne!

If you can't deal with changing mindsets while occassionally losing eq, no wonder you people with city characters can't debate well. I shattered three or four in Delport while actively influencing a named denizen. That's right, folks, you can win debates while losing ego and eq doing something else!

Transmig needs mild exp loss or limitation on area or frequency of use.

Nodme.

Edited out do to xavius 'ing me.

Though I see no reason to talk about completely unrelated skills like transmigrate in this topic, as they have nothing to do with each other. Seriously, that's as bad as mr I WILL TALK BIG BECAUSE I LIKE FLAMING PEOPLE.

But a little note about dreamweaving, since you -did- bring it up Sidra, all 4 nations have people with access to it.

I'm an idiot because Dreamweavers cannot feasibly be killed in Dreamform and I think that's perfectly ok?

Not everything needs a counter. One side has certain advantages at the cost of them not being able to counter the advantages of another org, and vice versa.

For instance, lets look at this from the perspective of RTS. The classic struggle between Protoss, Terran, and Zerg will do wonderfully.

The Protoss have very low health. The Protess have shields to make up for this. The Terran, however, have the ability to instantly drop all shields to 0 over a wide radius. Do the protoss have any way to stop this? No.

What do the Protoss have? Arbiters, which can recall units from anywhere on the map, to the position of the arbiter. Can anyone do anything to stop this? No.

These are both things that drastically can tip a battle in Starcraft, however, neither of them have counters. That is what allows flexibility, strategy, and uniqueness to actually come into play. If everything useful has a counter.. why have said useful thing in the in the first place?

Shield regeneration device things, or stasis.



Lockdown would stop this, no?

Why can't they be feasibly killed? (Assuming your not talking about Furrikin dreamers)

Its fairly common knowledge that a Dreamweaver with any brains isn't going to be killed unless there are like 5 people with Kether/Violet in the room.

So... there are counters, they just only work under certain circumstances.

Don't bring up Star Craft into this, I've used to play serious ladder games on it.

Everything in Star Craft HAS a counter, EVERYTHING, really, EVERYTHING, you doubt me, you need to play UMS games called Micro Wars, dealing with 2 players, one needs to micromanage like mad, and the other one needs to just mass slaughter as best they can, they get a score and then change sides, the winner being the one who micro'ed better then the other over the whole course of the trial. Little things no one knows about, like how 1 Terran marine can kill 4 zealots.

Edit:In fact it is such a complexly woven game with so many counters in it over in Asia people get paid to play it as a sport.

Three people could take me out in around 6 seconds. Two in about double that. But yes, its easy to be scared off by ketherers and flee.

I know that I sure as hell don't go for the dreambody if I see someone attacking in dreamform, though.

Edit: And two more things I should add while you bring this up:

1) Although a dreamweaver with any brains isn't going to be killed by kether, nor is any non-dreamweaver with any brains going to be killed by a dreamweaver. I see that as reasonable.

2) Dreamweaving is useless in a peaced village. Even in a non-peaced village, it is only really useful for illusioning that the village has pledged. ( ) So I'm not really sure how it could possibly relate to a discussion on influence.



Anyway, back on topic. You're assuming that the communes have an equal advantage to the cities' laetitia. Flow is handy if the place is forested (and in violent villages it -does- have a counter), but it doesn't actually benefit anyone in influencing itself.

So what is the advantage of the communes?

I hate to agree with Asarnil's mini-flame about this, but things that are "fairly common knowledge" are useally people geussing/complaining, and not true.

like me, I only thought chanting healed 400 ego a chant, boy was I wrong.

The cities have advantages that we don't gripe about...like Celestines and Nihilists having access to +2 charisma and a random chance for +3 charisma with only novice skills. We're not taking those away from you. The problem is that one of these advantages interferes with the whole debate situation in an unacceptably major and uncompensated fashion.