.... *ponders* .... Kharvik?

Well thats kind of the jist of the idea, carry on tweaking.

I really think they should have a "Nerf this Buff that" section of the forum to discuss those kind of things in. I think it is just fine as it is. There is really no reason to complain because someone loses less experience, you still won the fight, have a little pride in that and don't complain if some CR1 wants to lose some experience too.

Whats wrong with adding in new interesting skills though brad?

some people wouldn't call a skill souly meaned to cause experience loss interresting.

Ok, here's the Narsrim suggestion:

If you are killed by Sacrifice (Necromancy one) or Wrack, your soul is like offered to the Demon Lords of Nil. As a result, it cannot be sacrifice resurrected. Once you die, you move immediately into praying or conglutinating.

Precisely, I know I hate praying, and I do it pretty often, it's a waste of experience and time, so I don't begrudge Celest for having a decently simple way around it. And I think they died, so therefore they should get grace, but Murphy obviously enjoys seeing people suffer and pissed off, me, I think it's a game meant to be fun. I would prefer to piss off and kill my dorm mates. They are too loud.

Soulless Tarot takes the soul too, doesn't it?

I like this better, though not wrack, or you would have to give absolve a lich strip too.

Umm no, not really. Wrack is extremely difficult to get. Absolve isn't. I think it would be a nice perk.

Sounds good to me!

It instant kills you by the touch of a Soulless God, silly.

Sacrifice requires crucification and four broken/shrivelled limbs to do, so a total of.. 11 power, I think, while keeping limbs done. It's an utter bastard of a thing to pull off if you're not doing 2v1 or 3v1. Wrack's easier - five power and with a bound requirement - but against anyone competant, getting their mana down low enough and keeping them restrained is going to be pretty damn hard. Like with Alger, that was great fun. *shudder*

So basically, what you want is for wrack/sacrifice to become a griefing tool by forcing the person to pray, and removing a 10% reserves def from Absolve. I don't think so, tim.

accually I don't want absolve to get that, but I don't want wrack to get a thing that nullifies sacrifice either. I prefer nothing changes to souls. Though i should point out both sacraments and necromancy have a 'griefing' skill already, eating corpses and lastrites. I would also prefer inquisition doesn't strip vitae (should strip lich as it is not dead but and escape def).

Well by that arguement inquisition and gravestoning me is a grifing tool then. Strips lich etc or anything I could use to prevent praying.

I like narasrims skill idea as well as murphys.

But if the sheer fact is that you dont want a skill that removes one method for you to avoid praying then remove the gravestone skill, remove fossile, remove inquisiton stripping lich or any other death preventive skill. Right now people can effectivly stop every other form of resurection while killed in neutral lands, except sacrafice, if you want a level playing field either remove other peoples abilites to stop a res/resurgem hitting you or give some way to prevent sacrafice.

I also thought there was a big complaint that avoiding praying is to easy for everyone, or didnt I understand that other topic properly?

I personally don't wish praying for salvation on most of my enemies, i've often sent tells to malicia/whoever to some scrifice for someone, or even given a corpse back for rezzing.

On the odd occaision for utter tools like Raizan and other's who taunt me or otherwise piss me off i'd like to have the ability to make them suffer.

It isn't about greifing or making them lose something when it comes to praying, it is about experience balancing. Levels and experience is too easy to gain and keep due to the multiple resurrection abilities.

first of all before you start saying inquisition is a griefing skill, get your facts straight.

Inquisition is not used to strip lich, it is used to remove your other defenses, that protect you from damage and to keep you immobile while giving you damage or while someone instakills you.

Second lich is not a truedead (term loned from Nihilist guildscrolls) Magnagora embraces lich, Celest oposes lich. lich itself does not cost any experience and doesn't give experience or status. The removing of lich is like the removing of prismatic barrier, it makes giving truedead easier and makes escaping for your enemy harder.

I personally hardly ever use lastrites on people, the only times I do so is because people told me. I will try to offer a corpse if I can because it gives essence to a divine. If it's a Seren they have enough time to resurgem, if it's Mag and Glomdoring, I will give the corpse to someone if it was during something like the innersea battles or fights I brought on myself, however I don't think Mag likes to immolate so much. If it's a raider well though luck, raiding on prime is always dangerous, offprime well conglut is within your reach.

I only support part of Narsrim's idea (as in not giving it to wrack but do give it to sacrifice). Why would nihilists require 2 skills to stop souls while we only have 1 skill to stop liches (who don't accually die while souls did accually die). I also support that mag writes up what is wrong with crusify/sacrifice and suggest balanced ideas to fix it.

edit: oh and if it doesn't already inquisition and sacrifice should also strip transmigrate.

Actually, I'd love Inquisiton to only strip defenses up to the skillrank you achieve it. So if you get it at Mythical or something, it only strips defenses up to Mythical....but I guess Celestians will lynch me now.

Correct, thats one point why I figured a skill that prevents sacrafice should be cheaper than inquisition, as inquisition does so much more than just strip vitae and lich. You die to inquisition though you will pray on prime, I didnt say inquisition is a grifing skill.

I simply said that if your calling a skill which stops sacrafice and forces you to pray a grifing skill then you are also calling inquisition and grave stone a grifing skill as they will force you to pray as well. No double standards, by your rule, as you are calling a skill which will remove one option from you to avoid praying a grifing skill, then you are also calling inquisiton/gravestone/fossile a grifing skill. They all will strip or remove methods for you to avoid praying.



Personal actions are you choice there are some who will gravestone and force you to pray and not everyone is going to hand the corpse back to people.

Fair enough though give one method to stop scarafice instead of two, people are just throwing around ideas at the moment, Yup and everyone is writing up ideas to fix there skills just theres back coding or something like that so you wont see it for a bit.