Which Celest has. They have high charisma and laetitia.

Climbing Rise up into the trees.
Diving Dive deep below the waves.
Shaking Shaking a tree to see what falls out.
Clinging Clinging tightly onto a tree.
Weathersight Navigate through even the most horrid weather conditions.
AB ENVIRONMENT for more information on an ability.

trout <-> waterbreathe

While all these are certainly ok for novices to have, nothing against it, for cities to have some advantage in influencing is ok.Granted now that influencing has been fixed and Divert will cost 50% there will indeed be an imbalance again, but making it drop on shattered isn't the answer. Making the skill available to communes will solve the problem of superiority and allows enchanters to make more profit. Or one could remove laetitia entirely and replace it by another skill that has some combat use.

Anisu,

Learn the skills before you complain. Totems does NOT give the ability to shake, dive, or weathersight. They give climbing and cling.

I was just quoting the entire skill part to show they where near trans Narsrim.

If you are honestly trying to argue that the ability to climb into trees is on par with a massive influence advantage, I really have just don't know what to say.

Likewise if it matters, Celestines can get into trees too. You can FLY and LAND TREES so nyah.

Yeah, damn the ability to climb. It's ruining one of the most important aspects of Lusternia, nerf it!

Like that is even effective against a forestal Narsrim. Really I have observed your arguing over the last days now and I get the feeling you have no attention to anything that doesn't benifit you. Atleast I try to come across with a solution even if I don't believe there is a problem.

Of course you don't, you're one of the people that the skill benefits.

Have those with laetitia tried debating without it (even using it on themselves), to compare the difference?

I don't know whether it has a large effect or small, but I did notice that in a test run with Jeiel when she agreed not to chant at all, it was a -lot- easier for me to win.

How about we leave Laetitia to what it is now and ask for the Admins to allow Light to be cast within a peaced village? Laetitia works of balance last I worked with it, though its been awhile and Ive only been a Mage since I last tried it as I hate Guardian skills. Do the Night users have something that Ego regens like Light does? If so, let that work there too if it doesnt already.

Light regens like 90 ego every 10 seconds.

Wow. F-ing wow.

Better than nothing, you have Sun to combine it with. There is one skill to Celest that can heal Ego, if you want to make such a change. Look into Ego base.

Its like comparing... waxing to trueheal.

My memory is failing a bit. Does honour regen ego? I believe it does. In fact, I believe it has the potential to stack higher than sun.

Oh, and isn't Imperial Merian charisma the same as High Elfen and Shadowcaster Faeling?

And also, as someone who's been on all applicable sides of the fence: If you have less than 12 charisma, a skill that would get you above 12 charisma (like populus, netzach--primarily city skills) will make the biggest difference in your debating and influencing talents. However, 13 charisma with laetitia is much better than 18 charisma without. Been there, done that.

Oh, and Anisu, in regards to your comment about laetitia's intended use...it predates psionics. And debating.

EDIT: Ok, looking over this...Brood Viscanti may as well not show up for peaceful influences. That's kinda sad. They should just lose that charisma penalty.

Perhaps we need to look at it in a positive manner and not the 'OMGZ NERF!!" manner. Does Celest top all villages? No. Does Magnagora top all villages? No. Does Seren own 6 of 10 villages? Yes. Look, 6 of -10- villages, wow youre a flipping Empire. Look, youve done it -without- Laetitia. Celest has Laetitia, they have oh, would you know it? One village. Magnagora has Laetitia, they have, oh, three villages.

Does Laetitia make stronger influencers? Obviously not as Serenwilde, a Commune -without- Laetitia is beating the crap out all the other villagers in revolts. What do you know..youve all done with -without- Laetitia. Imagine that.. Who would have know.

When Magnagora was kicking everyones butts this arguement works. Right now, its pointless. Try asking for a power up to your own skills if youre not happy, our skills get nerfed to dirt all the time. Balance and mana are required for it, means it cant be done all the time. Means that you could effectively stop Laetitia from working with skills that drain mana. Theres several of them out there so use em. Cant in peaced? Well, youre doing pretty damn good right now so it just doesnt seem to matter if theyre there or not.



I see an odd trend that should be noted...

The trend is complete lack of debate talent, honestly. It's like comparing the Hartstone to the Blacktalon. I think the Blacktalon have superior skills, but not that it matters one lick when you compare the people wielding said skills.

Debating Celestian? One less Celestian influencer.
Debating Seren? 50-50 chance of losing an influencer on either side.

So when Celest and Magnagora get some on-par-with-Serenwilde talent bring this conversation up.

Right now, its best to focus on getting everyone on par with Serenwilde as Celest and Glomdoring are having the most problems with this.

I'm so tired of the absolutely irrelevant relations to Laetitia.

The entire argument is now reduced to:

"We don't have the people or natural ability of X organization, so we should have abilities that attempt to override such factors."

I don't think there is anything negative about the intent of this thread. It's not saying laetitia should be removed at all, its asking whether laetitia in the hands of some organizations is unbalanced, and could still use looking at. Solutions could be of any kind, nerf or not.

Now, Serenwilde is currently doing better than the other organizations in influence for a few reasons. Following your line of reasoning, this shows us that Sun totem is vastly overpowered, and really is too much for the cities to handle. Right?

If laetitia is supposed to be the city version of bromide, like Anisu told me in another thread, then make it enchantable. Everyone wins.