An alternative: Give two Magnagoran classes the ability to demesne travel to anyone in aqua demesnes, and two Celest classes the ability to demesne travel to anyone in geo demesnes.

Can Celestians travel in aqua demesnes and Magnagorans travel in geo demenses?

Yep

Aquamancers and Geomancers can travel in their own one, as well as returning to the centre of it.

They can't in other people's demesnes or unmelded flood though, so far as I know.

Silly. Not the Aquamancer in their own, but could a Celestine or Paladin hop around the Aquamancer's demesne? Or a Nihilist or Ur'guard around a Geomancer's?

I'm not sure, maybe with an allies demense?

No. Which is why I didn't say they could when I mentioned the closest Celest and Magnagora can get to that.



EDIT: Plus Via...I guess.

So this is what you are getting at. Make it so that Faethorn is a death-trap for all Gloms.

Wisp is the bigger problem here, not flow. Wisp should be only in your own forest type, else it becomes literally impossible to stop a well setup ethereal raiding party, since you can wisp the transversers before they recover eq. Wisp also has the problem of, in it's current state, being usable to wisp druids out of their own demesnes, which is just wrong. However, wisp is being nerfed, isn't it? Changed to be something else? So this is a moot point.

Flow, on the other hand, isn't. If flow is made same forest only as it used to be, then the Glom novices really suffer. Two solutions: leave it as is, or make it so that those who have Moon/Stag cannot flow through wyrden forests, and those who have Night/Crow cannot flow through ethereal/"natural" forests. Both can still flow through garden and sylvan environs.



Errr, I don't follow. If a Blacktalon melds Faethorn, don't you want this as well? :confused:

I think the majority of opinion in this thread are tainted by recent events AND IC propaganda which is not true to the world as a whole.

There is no difference between a wisp called to by a member of Serenwilde or a wisp called to by a member of Glomdoring. Game mechancis they might be different for balance purposes, but ICly they are the same creature.

Also, I see no reason why a person who is intuned with the creations of the Ethereal plane would be unable to have acess to any parts of those creations.

Oh, I also think it might be fun pointing out how people were saying they should be able to flow around faethorn without having to meld it first.

But as long as I can remember, no blacktalon has ever melded faethorn. May be for a brief raid but Glomdoring was never able to hold on to it for more than half a day. While changing flow and wisp is fair, since it affects both side, but practically it would strengthen the hold over faethorn for whoever is in control. So basically the strong gets stronger and the weak weaker.

We have the same messages, and yes, that one as well.

And yes, we teach the Shadowdancers the same. Surprised?

Daganev, let's not get into this argument too much. Yes, the wisps come from the same place - they are summoned by different means and for different purposes, but their purpose is the same.

I cannot make a tree move in Wyrdforest, I cannot call a squirrel, I cannot call vines through my talisman, and I cannot even grow a sapling. However, I can dissolve my entire form into spirit, locate someone's presence disturbing the Wyrdforest and race through the essence of Wyrd itself to get to them.

I dislike both the flow change and wisp.. wisp isn't that important to me, it is in most cases easy to avoid and is likely to be removed. The flow change annoys me both RP-wise and in terms of defense.

You can use nature blend, nature vines, and forage in both forests, no matter who you are. I've always called foraging from tainted/wyrden forests "eating taintberries" IC and always will

Speaking as a low-level druid, I have never flowed away from home. But I would say that sort of action should result in you getting multi-afflicted.

The question here seems to have more to do with balance than with the RP of the situation. Speaking from the perspective of a druid, it can be really annoying when people can enter your demesne, wisp you, and then barge you or beckon you or whatever to make you leave it, things like this just screw everything up. However, I don't mind it when people flow to me in my demesne, in fact that's what I want them to do. So, in the balance perspective, wisp should only be in your own forest type, while flow can potentially be anywhere. This even makes sense from the RP standpoint, in that shadowbound wisps can't use normal forest and normal wisps can't use wyrded forest, but the forest users in general don't have these same distinctions because they aren't -pure- nature essence. Fits perfectly with my RP, in fact.

So, in conclusion, I agree with Shorlen and whoever else said it that wisp should be changed to own-forest only, while flow should remain the same.

Whoah now, let's back up. What skill is Flow in? Let's see, Nature. Wisp? Twould be a Fae, in Wicca. Now, despite the fact that the two forests may differ, there's a lot of debate as to that whole taint issue, so I'm not even going to get into that. However, what I want to focus on here is that both locations, despite appearances, are what? Forests. In my mind, the basest base of each establishment is the same, it's a forest. Trees, roots, foresty things. As such, I don't really think you can equate the forest's demenses to the Aqua's or the Geo's. While those two forces are in what can be seen as a direct opposition, Glomdoring and Serenwilde do indeed share their most common features and essence as that of a forested area. We have the same nature spirits, can summon the same basic fae, and are more in-tune with eachother than either place might be willing to admit. People seem to forget that fact.


As for those learning messages, like Shayle said, they're the same. And yes, our fae are our companions. (Val's actually thinking of holding a small seminar about how exactly the fae should be viewed, as he's noticing discrepancies between Shadowdancers). From Val's mind, there's no enslavement whatsoever, or at least, not an enslavement like most people view it. That whole Shadow thing? Pfft, Shadowdancers have a skill that bonds us in Shadow just the same, and all it does is protect us. But, I'd prefer not to get into that debate here either.