15. Termination. Either the User or the Company may terminate a license and Character and this agreement without notice at any time without further obligation to the other. Further, the Company reserves the right to terminate the Services, or any part thereof, at any time without notice and without further obligation to you. IN NO EVENT SHALL YOU BE ENTITLED TO A REFUND OF ANY FEES, CREDITS, OR OTHER PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PURCHASED FROM THE COMPANY OR ITS SUBCONTRACTORS, AFFILIATES, OR LICENSORS. UPON TERMINATION OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOUR ACCESS PRIVILEGES TO THE SERVICES WILL TERMINATE AND YOU WILL FORFEIT ANY UNUSED CREDITS AND LESSONS. The following sections shall survive termination: 6, and 9-18.

This is in the terms of service, located here. In order to play, you agree to all things listed there, including that that I've shown above.

Guess it ends that argument. Pwnt.

I'm pretty sure the admin allready have such a system in places... Its called "thier eyes."

I remember I was once asked by an admin to send them logs of events because they were getting repeated independant complaints about a person for various activities.

I agree with Daganev on this, there really is no purpose to make some sort of petition system, there are already enough ways to bring attention to such behavior, such as issues

Maybe you can ask the question " Has X purchased credits, thus becoming our customer? " , if the answer is no then X can be treated like someone who constatly enters a shop just to browse, but often upsets people by shouting.

I don't see why everyone is always griping on Nars...I mean he is like a louder version of Amaru. Amaru could be a Narsrim if he wanted to. Anyone could get the creds, get the same race and skills, get a system, practice practice pratice...and become a Narsrim.

Sure people who are so powerful their name scares most poeple are annoying alot of the time. But they also make it fun, if Lusternia did not have Amaru and Murphy and Narsrim and Daevos and Kaervas...it would be much much less fun for me thats for sure...
love-mimi

It's a bad idea.

IRE makes no distinction between Credit buyers and other players.

Erm why do you think this threads about narsrim? I actually assume this thread was more aimed at that thief voron guy that at raiders. You know like everyone who comes into contact with voron will say yea he is a detrimental presence in the game he gives nothing back what so ever to the game as a whole, no ones said that about nars, some may have said he annoys them sometimes but no ones said narasrim is a parasite on our game that I know off. I didnt think about narasrim seriously in this thread until you mentiond it, I assumed arix was just joking around.

I will say this about raiding etc.

In all my years I have NEVER been involving in the wholesale slaughter of newbies, lowbies or anyone else in the city/commune PROPER.

Narsrim and co have been seen NUMEROUS times in Glomdoring, raiding it killing people, wisping people in their home town which is an act far worse than raiding celestia.

People can ignore celestia, which happens a fair bit just like Glomdoring could ignore etherglom if you guys took it over (bit hard because of mass amounts of guards) So really, raiding a commune proper and slaughtering everyone just for kicks and giggles is a lot different to organised raiding of celestia/mining villages to get angel/miners.

Even when you guys raid the catacombs you go up there with the express purpose of killing everyone and you do it so cheaply that even a good group can't catch you, and then you just run and wisp picking off the weak ones.

At least when we raid it's for the benefit of a game mechanic which weakens the enemy + makes us stronger.

EDIT: My 'raiding' faethorn doesn't count, it's neutral territory and as such is the same as me 'raiding' the sphere of Gemini. Sure you have an RP reason to defend it, but I have an RP reason to kill teamers who jump me in neutral territory.

I fail to see why Murphy is on the list of griefers. I never really saw him as one.

I admit that people are sometimes caused grief by my actions, however it's never intended and if someone actually said something to me in game about it -hint- ((OOC: Murphy, dude i'm literally in ters here and i'm cutting myself please stop)) would be a good start, then you'd get me being nice OOC and even work on an IC resultion that goes further than me killing you on sight.

Its the people who taunt me in tells and shouts that get what's coming to them. Most people don't realise that I keep tabs of taunts, and take it out on them later for it.

Watch the top 10% of known players to be labelled, and then those who aren't griefers to be labelled just to be screwed.

There is a valid business reason for kicking out griefers, namely that they reduce people's enjoyment of the game and make people less likely to buy credits. Also, are you sure Lusternia is subject to US Law? Where is Lusternia hosted, anyway?

I think that if a substantial part of the playerbase has ISSUED someone for scamming, alt abuse, and so on, then that person should be looked at by the administration. Griefing *within* the rules of the game isn't something that can be stopped - Any game has the kind of moron who doesn't give a about other people's enjoyment and just plays to 'win', specially games where there's no winning, such as MMOG.

EDIT: And I did get Murph not to kill me on sight with a couple of interesting tells. Hopefully I'm not an exception.

I don't like this idea. It seems to imply that the only reports taken seriously will be those submitted en-masse by a group of players.

I understand the reasoning behind it, but I would hope our admin are objective enough to see a problem equally from one well-written issue as they are from 50.

If you're talking about some sort of mechanism that allows the players to act on problems themselves, I could see that as more viable. Say, if you receive 10 black marks from each of the four organizations in a year, you are branded as something on your honours for a while, and can no longer enter safe rooms while you have it. Or something minor like that that doesn't really give -too- much power to popularity.

I'd feel so bad if someone was cutting themselves over something I did.


I almost want to cry now just thinking about it

And no Murphy isn't a griefer he is a big teddy.

I'd just like to add of how popularity does factor into this:

Yrael robs people, but Yrael has some charisma to him. Shorlen mentioned in another thread that if Yrael had robbed his shop, it would have been "ok," but since Voron did it, he is going to quit unless his items are returned.

Does anyone see a problem there?

Yrael did to other people, multiple people, as much damage as Voron did to Shorlen, yet Shorlen argues it is acceptable for Yrael and not so for Voron all on the basis of how the two thieves carry themselves. Voron is distant, cold, and largely unknown. Yrael is goofy, often cute, and rather bold.

However, they both do the SAME thing. Yet, it is ok for one and not the other because of non related factors. That's exactly how this griefing issue is. It is more acceptable, tolerated, and even encouraged for certain people of certain groups moreso than certain people of other groups.

It is never a matter of what you do. It is never a matter of what damage you inflict. It is never a matter of how many people are "hurt." It is a matter of HOW you do it.

That's pretty f-ing lame in my book. Yrael hurt more people than Voron did (he robbed how many more shops). However, Shorlen would be the first to tell you Voron is a griefer but Yrael isn't because Yrael is cute about it. I'm sorry, but I object.

When did we devolve this into being an argument about me being a griefer? Yes, I have stolen a lot more. However, unlike Vorlen, I can (and often am, I die an average of four-twelve times a log on) be punished for it. Chances are that Shorlen would have gotten a fair whack of his objects back. Unlike Vorlen (Who, incidently, I'll be trying to get the items back from when he logs on, as he did earlier, but he just sat in the portal), he can see something being done about me.

Punished? I'm sorry, but you liching and then hiding in your city doesn't count. Skyla was crushed - absolutely crushed when her store was robbed. She had accidently set her eye sigil for sell with some other sigils she had.

Why is that ok, but Voron robbing Shorlen isn't? What exactly could Skyla do to you that has such a major impact that Shorlen can't to Voron?

I never said it was okay. I was illustrating a difference.