They kept him affliction locked for an hour (the time it took for them to figure out how to steal the items back, minus the gold which was already gone).

The problem is Ferlas is that you like many others are sucked into conventional "knowns." As you have said, you don't really know Yrael. You don't really know Voron. What you do know is pieced together from what you have heard and read.

This presents a problem of sorts. Skyla, who was robbed by Yrael, was in grief. She was furious, angry, upset, and just felt like crap because all her hard work was dissolved in a single theft (she was a GA just like Shorlen too - the GA of the Moondancers). As I recall, she got almost nothing back. I do believe she got an item or two of significance to her, but the overall "I just lost 400,000+ gold" worth of stuff was still there. Shortly after this happened, Yrael left for a reason I am unaware of but went inactive for a few months.

Voron has done literally the same thing. The only difference is that Voron isn't a Magnagora citizen. He has (from what I can tell) no IC friends. There is no one willing to put a spin on his story and make it sound better than it really is.

However, the bottom line is that while yes, Yrael may be back months later, he's done everything Voron has and more, yet people will argue Yrael is more "constructive." I fail to see how his inactivity is any more constructive than Voron's.

So in the end, we have you Ferlas. We have lots of people like you who don't really know what Yrael did. Who don't really know that yes, he went inactive too (at least, you wouldn't know if you are a new character, you might if you are not) so when someone says Voron is a bad guy, but Yrael is a good guy...

You just jump on the bandwagon. And then, you attempt to reinforce those beliefs as if they are an absolute truth. I'm not saying Yrael is bad guy. I like Yrael.. but I am saying that if Voron (who lots of people like to down) is so shady, so terrible, so evil... then how can you honestly in any shape-or-form justify that Yrael isn't the same?

As I have said you were arguing that (someone who just steals and does nothing anything else constructive to the game) was on equal terms as (someone who steals, roleplays and adds constructively to the game) and that everyone was having double standards treating these two types of thieves differently, I disagreeded with you and felt that you should treat these two kinds of thieves differently in an ooc perspective. Thats basically the jist of what ive posted anyway.

Yup as I said with hindsight it was silly using yrael and voron as an example, ignore that I did that it just distracts from the principal of the issue as I said the name and the who dont really matter, edit their names to mary and kate if you want.

And I do belive that there are two different types of thieves and it isnt double standards as you put it to treat them differently, thats my absolute truth that im trying to reinforce as you put it.

Sorry if you thought id jumped on the band waggon, I thought I had made it clear that I was only using voron and yrael as an example? Sorry if you didn't understand it.

So, if I make a character just and only to kill selectively people from an organization, logging off each time it smells like problem for me, and coming back randomly to kill newbies is the same as if I have a well built RP character that hates certain organization and kills people from that organization, risking being killed in the process?

Wow, standards. I as a player am griefed exactly the same when I am killed just because somebody felt like playing counterstrike, without any purpose, reason or objective, and without repercusions, than when I am into an RP scene (with a person I know will try to kill me) in a PK game where I am expected to be killed someday, somehow, and where I can ask my guild champion to go and avenge me back.

Right.

Who said its fine to be a griefer because its your roleplay?

Its been said before

'nob' is spelt with a k

as in, Narsrim you are a Knob.

I am saying that a person against who you can at least take action against is not such a grave problem of griefing as the person who does something just_and_only to grief without even caring about the game. Thus the difference between Yrael and that Vogon guy. I am not justifying griefing, I am just talking about people who grief "by the rules" and people who are around just to disrupt the game by making the lives of players more miserable.

Basically, I see a Divine going and punishing Yrael IC due to his bad actions (sorry guy, just using you as an example) giving place to an interesting RP scene, but a person that steals so Out of character and purely to grief as Vogon deserves nothing more than administrative punishment. Among other things due that from what you said he probably would be singing in russian during the RP scene.

Ya I believe someone who just steals and dosnt add to the game is worse than someone who steal and adds to the game. Thats what I think anyway :shrug: