I don't really get offended. It just makes me think of you as bacteria.

That's all I'm saying. You can't say that Christianity is a violent religion because it doesn't promote violence. It promotes moral values instead.

Or just mention Jesus's brothers in the New Testament, and ask how that fits with a Catholic concept* of the immaculate conception.


*this once read conception. That was a typo.

It promotes values, like any other religion or culture.

Whether they are moral (I prefer ethical) is highly subjective. A lot of what Christianity says is very positive, though.

Actually, that second edit was placed in BEFORE you or Iridel posted. Don't try and think it was in response to you.

Ok, here is a solid link between that piece of evidence, which you don’t refute; and that statement which I made.

Many nations have struggled with various religions causing dissent. England, for one or the English Queen was very concerned of this in the.. hmm sometime around when the word antidisestablishmentarianism came about. (protestants vs. Catholics) She wanted to be sure that they’d all go to war for England, even if it was against people of the same religion as they.

That was about the time that “nations” for the sake of a nation came about, something we now, in established nations, and modern times, take for granted.

Ages ago (around the roman time which I cited) people didn’t really think of themselves as the –insert nation title here- they might have been in village, or some such. Religion was a much bigger factor back then.

There is no doubt, and can be no doubt, in anyone's mind, that having a universal religion in a nation further unifies that nation.

That empire of which I spoke encompassed many different peoples, and the best tie between them, since it could not be locality, or even dependence on each other, would be religion.

((Sorry, this would have been up sooner by my sister used the phone and our internet is weird and it died on me.))

To add fuel to the christmas is un-christan fire http://www.hisremnant.org/eby/articles/kin.../christmas.html

Though I'm happy for you to celebrate pagan holidays... so long as you bloody well celebrate them at the right time (*grumble* always getting in the yuletide mood "early" )

Bacteria gets to multiply so very very much, and if multiplication (or the attempt to) is close to as much enjoyment as it is as a human, then yes i fancy myself as bacteria too.

Don't worry 'ru, i'm not going to start an arguement over christianity with a christian, as faith is somewhat of a trump card in an arguement about relgion, much like saying "Well i believe this and this, nothing you say makes a difference" or the more juvenile version "I can't HEAR YOU *fingers in ears* la la la la"

Ok i'm going to bed before i start on at people because i'm nasty when i don't have enough sleep/medication

No. They relate to moral issues. They put forward moral principles. They are moral because they relate to morality.



If you disprove something which someone 'believes' then they've always been defeated. A religious belief should be no different from any other belief.

Actually, they also burned any woman of no intelligence that lived alone, under the suspicion that a woman who wasn't happily bringing kids to the world and making his husband happy was a witch. If said usually old woman was also mentally inestable, more the reason to believe she was a witch. It's one of the pains of being different, and this kind of different people had been burned and called a witch since before the christians came around, at least in spain. You should read some vasque traditional stories.

This way the town in question had somebody to blame if the harvest was wrong, or a cow was born death, while the church representatives said they had done something about it. It's a constant in human nature to find somebody to blame for your bad luck.

The real big inquisition was more of a political matter and didn't dirty itself with such townie bussiness, but of course you always had the handly church priest slightly too fanatic for its own wellbeing, or the violent drunkard who started the bandwagon to kill the wytch.

Regarding that book, Murphy, I have just said that the book has no credibility for me, but that the subject is very worth the studying, as European history is really influenced by christianism, so if you're reading about it I am sure you'll have a great time (and I am not joking, I've been interested in similar subjects since years ago). But to understand religion in its european starts you need to also read about history and politics in Europe at that moment (for example, a great reason to burn witches came with the famines and epidemic diseases, as somebody sins must have caused them and it was better to keep the populace blaming the witch and releasing agresivity than looking at how the nearby castle was closed and full of food and healthy people to avoid contagion).

Also, it was easier to use "God put me in the throne and you in the fields to be a slave" than "I am the heir of the Lord of the Castle and I am doing what I want with your daughter because I got bored of going hunting while you work". God is the ultimate excuse, the ultimate irrefutable reason if you have been brainwashed as a believer from birth and fearing Hell since you were old enoguh to fear.

Apologies.. I wasn't trying to imply that. However, I posted.. and realised you'd added more I hadn't seen.

With all the lies spread by the early church, it wouldn't surprise me that the 'virgin' mary didn't start with an original lie.

Joseph: Mary how the hell did you get pregneant, we haven't had sex in......
Mary: *cough* uhh, emmm, miracle? Thats it...a miracle, God made it happen.
Joseph: Riiiight *stares hatefully at his brother*

Now THAT isn't very nice Murphy.

. . .

I mean the Catholic concept of the Immaculate conception.

Though that -is- funny, we're trying to get to truth in this thread, so even though I'm laughing, the statements only mildly appreciated.

Ok, Murph. Let's not go too far into speculation.. after all the Bible mentions the siblings. It doesn't accuse Mary of being a whore.

I'll get back into this conversation when I have time. Right now I'm late for something.

It's easy to blame armies of brainwashed, Hell-fearing Christians for whatever you like. But I have an innate distrust of people who get indignant when religion is mentioned, and go to such huge efforts to dismiss it and argue against it. If it's all just tosh.

Used in that context, sure.

Perhaps I should have said, they are not necessarily good moral values.

Why is that a Catholic concept? I find it difficult to believe that Protestants think otherwise.

Amaru...
Your intelligent reply left me breathless and wordless. I bow to your insuperable wisdom. You showed than an emote, like religion, can answer anything.

WoW.