Doesn't cleanse allow you to scrub anywhere?

Sap+timed paralysis
You cure the paralysis
You get webbed
you writhe
your paralysied/webbed again

Druid keeps that up until the deadlier demence effects hit in making it imposiable to cure sap.



O come on you know confusion is great in combination with other demence effects and sap.

Sap+timed paralysis = nothing.

You cure the paralysis dependant on your discipline skill, but let's just say 3 seconds. You get webbed, wich you can HARDLY at all time to hit exactly after the paralysis by the way, but anyway. Let's say another 4 seconds are gone. So you are at 7 seconds, and with trans druidry, the effects hit in 3 seconds. Enough time for anyone to shield or walk a room away. Note that if the druid is no mugwump, he can't vine again, otherwise he would be off equi when paralysis hits and he couldn't use sap.

I like being a druid, really...so many tactics, but it mostly comes down to two ways of actually killing someone. Sap or manakill. For sap you need to have 5 power and hit the enemy when he can't cure it, for manakill you need to have crowform.

Anyway.

Why do you need to time the web with the paralysis? Web them it dosnt matter if they are paralysied or not.

Sap plus demensce paralysis
I start to focus body and am sapped
Gives you enough time to web me before I can scrub
Start to writhe still sapped
Hit by paralysis again
Druid can web you again

You can keep that up indefinatly cant you until the more hindering afflictions have time to stick.

cleanse != scrub.

Anything that stops normal scrubbing stops scrub.

Anything that stops enchantment use stops cleanse.

Sap, four seconds eq. Paralysis, 1.3 seconds at trans discipline. Free from the start.

Erk I need to trans discipline, didn't realise it was that fast with trans

Unlimited vials were artifacts that cost people between 300 to 1200 credits. That is far more than one artifact vial filled with a potion costs.

Soap was never billed as something that would allow you to completely circumvent vines or paralysis, either.

By your logic, the unlimited vials should have extra advantages tacked on as well, it would seem.

Edit: I suppose the envoy suggestion should be... "If you can't rub a ring while vined / paralyzed, you should not be able to SCRUB while under those afflictions either." It makes sense. The scrub message includes you attempting to bathe, which is difficult if you can't move.

Yes it does. Confusion makes it take much longer to recover equilibrium, for everyone.

You cant concentrate when confused either which is the big thing about it.

You can't focus while you are impatient, not sure about confusion.

You did not pay attention to what I said, did you? It was billed that you could scrub anywhere. That was all it was billed as and that is all it does. Instead of having water and doing the same thing, the person can just have the soap and scrub. It does not give any advantages over normal scrub, besides that it can be used outside of water (making it magic soap).

Also on your second point, then they would have to give people back their credits. Why you ask? Because then scrub no longer has the one advantage it had over cleanse, and that was the ability to do it even while paralyzed. Yes, smart people use to tumble to water (if near) and just scrub instead of using cleanse. It was the best way to get out of a sap-lock instead of setting there trying to cleanse while the druid kept afflicting you.

Confusion prevents concentrating not foucus.

oh yeah, misread that. Though you rarely have to concentrate in a BT demesne if you are able to keep fire up...

Thats the point, you need to keep them in sap for a bit with paralysis and web until things like freeze and confusion and lung start to hit and stick. Once they get on it is practically imposiable to cure sap, by the time you've drank fire twice to get cured then cured confusion and start to concentrate the demensce hits you again and you can't roll or tumble away due to being frozen and black lung.

Thats why I figured the paralysis and web whoring at the start was imposiable to counter inside a druids demences because they could keep it up until the other afflictions started to stack but xavius says If I trans discipline you can counter it.

Those are all valid points but do not forget that other classes can time attacks just as well, albeit it is not nearly as nasty as it is with druids.
I fully agree with Geb here though. I see nothing wrong with scrub/cleanse, can you not make a scrub or cleansing timer also, to counteract when someone is clearly going for a saplock?

You make it sound easier than it is....for example I got out of Munsias demesne while she used Morphite on me and Narsrim vined me. And it's not sure that the effect that gives blacklung really gives it, there's a chance of two others as well. Generally everyone can escape a druids demesne, even a good timed one, and even IF sap hits, it's not sure that they die, even when vined and so on. And you need to drink fire only once, since you aren't frozen. Confusion is a herbcure, so you can eat it at the same time you drink fire, and blacklung is another potion, two seconds after you drank fire. Or even before, if your curing goes like that.
And I am not sure why you always bring up concentrate...it's not like you have to concentrate as soon as the spiders hit you. It usually is like 5 or 6 seconds off before you have to. Not to mention that a little lag can screw a demesne royally. I know, believe me. My demesne is as good timed as it can be, and still, sometimes only two effects hit a second.
Sap can cost some more power, really...just not 8 again, it took ages for me to regenerate up again.

I'm not trying to imply anything here, as I simply can't achieve the precision of attacks required for the highest echelons of combat, but has Munsia ever beaten you 1 on 1, Geb?

I'm trying to think of how a Hartstone druid gets a high level combatant hindered enough to be killable without combining sap/paralyze/web... unlike Blacktalon we don't have a manakill.

Which only works if the Blacktalon is in the trees and the target on the ground...unlike that stagthing.

Ah... didn't know that. Can you make an alias that climbs up and then does the kill, or does it require you to cling or perch or something? Climbing up doesn't consume balance or equilibrium, thankfully.

I'm just a bit worried about people sort of being immune to the best component of Druid combat.