Need to be perched, unfortunately. :/

Makes it worse because perched is currently bugged and sylph can hold us easily out of trees...as well as that Aquamancer thing, I think. So I am using cling at the moment.

EDIT: Why don't you join the Blacktalon and see for yourself...

Tempting...

But looks like both guilds are in the same boat. I don't know, just don't like it.

Ash's always in to convert somebody...just talk him up sometimes.

I said I was going on paralysis taking 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds to cure, with trans discipline we were told it takes less than two seconds, but with focus body at 2.5 seconds which is what I thought was average:

-Sap hits
-Start to cure sap
-Paralysis Hits before the cleanse goes through About one second has passed.
-Start to focus body, 1 more second for it to start
-Focus body starts, as a 2+ second cure
-Now about four or so seconds have passed you have recovered from sap if its a 4 second equi can web me before I get to cleanse.

If demensce effects hit every three seconds then you will have been hit again with paralysis close to you webbing, you could effectivly keep them webed indefinatly until black lung and being frozen sets in was my point, as I said I didnt realise I could get foucs body down to a 1.7 time giving me enough time to squeeze out of that combo. I was only going on what xavius did when testing on me and it technically seemed imposiable to cure a timed sap inside a druid demensce. As I said though Transing discipline would make it posiable though and makes the tatic kinda null and ive always got the option of rolling out of the demesnce if im near the edge.

The point was kinda about the soap though I just couldn't see a way of sap locking someone without being able to stop cleanse with web and paralysis, but from the sounds of it soap wont go on sale and only a handful of the older people in the game have it.

Ah, nevermind, got what you want to say.

Though demesne effects hit every 10 seconds, and that's at trans.

And even timed sap is cured pretty easily, first with trans or even high discipline, second, you can throw times as much as you want, but it NEVER goes as you want, trust me. You might get lucky sometimes and the enemy really fails to cure, but that's very rare. hey, I have Master discipline and never had problems to cure sap in a full demesne.

As soon as I can grab one of my trainees, I'll show you how I cure sap.

Odd I thought you said it hits every 3 seconds on this forum, my mistake im just going crazy. I was just going on whats technically posiable sure I could look out for the timing and shield or web when I think its commig to avoid it. But you will be able pull that combo off eventually wont work every time but definatly against my speed of focus body if hit right and do that combination on me my only option is to leave the demensce to cure.

Yeah, I do pull it off pretty often if I actually listen to my echos (*cough*) but really, you prolly won't need to leave. Ask Xenthos...I sapped him in our ffa pretty often (instead of deepsleeping him, meh), and he always cured right out of it. Sure, I didn't time it right, but still, being sapped and hit by the demesne isn't too bad.

Just an example of how a good timed sap is still easily set off:


2811h, 4634m, 4564e, 10p exk---/16:15:21.671/
With a grim smile, Pentu touches the trees and sap courses out in a thick syrup
that lunges at you, coating you in the viscid liquid.
2811h, 4634m, 4564e, 10p exk---/16:15:22.281/
You move sluggishly into action.
2811h, 4634m, 4564e, 10p exk---/16:15:22.500/
You rub an elemental crown and it begins to glow with a pulsating light.
Warm water showers down upon yourself, and you scrub under your armpits trying
to wash away that sticky sap.
2965h, 5055m, 4564e, 10p xk---/16:15:23.015/
The tiny red mushrooms on the ground release a cloud of yellow spores, which
travel up your nose and make your eyes water.
Small motes of yellow pollen rise up from the wildflowers around you and drift
into your mouth. Your throat begins to scratch, forcing you to cough.
Hundreds of bloated spiders crawl up your legs, their painful stings raising red
welts on your skin.
A coldness seeps deep into the marrow of your bones.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Flying insects suddenly swarm you, covering you with tiny, painful stings.
A bolt of whitest lightning streaks down from the heavens and engulfs you. You
writhe and shake in noiseless agony as the pure electricity ripples over your
body.
2646h, 5055m, 4564e, 10p xkp---/16:15:24.375/



On the other hand:

2664h, 4945m, 4564e, 10p exk---/16:16:11.453/
With a grim smile, Pentu touches the trees and sap courses out in a thick syrup
that lunges at you, coating you in the viscid liquid.
2818h, 5056m, 4564e, 10p exk---/16:16:14.312/
The tiny red mushrooms on the ground release a cloud of yellow spores, which
travel up your nose and make your eyes water.
Small motes of yellow pollen rise up from the wildflowers around you and drift
into your mouth. Your throat begins to scratch, forcing you to cough.
Hundreds of bloated spiders crawl up your legs, their painful stings raising red
welts on your skin.
You gasp as your fine-tuned reflexes disappear into a haze of confusion.
Flying insects suddenly swarm you, covering you with tiny, painful stings.
A bolt of whitest lightning streaks down from the heavens and engulfs you. You
writhe and shake in noiseless agony as the pure electricity ripples over your
body.
2499h, 5056m, 4564e, 10p exkp---/16:16:14.578/
You move sluggishly into action.
2499h, 5056m, 4564e, 10p exkp---/16:16:14.875/
You are paralysed and cannot do that.
2499h, 5056m, 4564e, 10p exkp---/16:16:15.281/

That was the only way she was able to get me, hitting like 0.5 seconds before I got paralysed.

A whole second out isn't really optimal timing. Also, why were you on-equilibrium both times? Under normal circumstances you'd be off it from actually, y'know, attacking, more often than not.

In a demesne my first move would be to overforest it or run away if I am wisped.
And 1 second is the best time you actually can get(planned, that is. If you hit a little later, you might be too late...it's really a play of luck after that point. ) , it's pretty hard to sap, especially since for example I am under constant attack of lagspikes.

The second example was like how it should go she should have been able to web him constantly after that with no way to cure it. But just reading over this whole thread has given me an amazing idea about how to deal with druids better though.

Assuming you start to cure paralysis as soon as it hits ashteru which you didnt you were later than you could have been as you didnt stop cleansing

Example
---/16:16:14.312/ sap hits
---/16:16:14.578/ paralysis hits
start to focus body
+1 second to start it in sap
+1.7 seconds for it to go through
---/16:16:17.278/ you can start to cleanse
1 second for cleanse it to go through
---/16:16:17.278/this is the best posiable time to cure that sap with perfect curing and a 1.7 focus body
---/16:16:18.312/ is when pentu would be able to web

With perfect curing, trans discipline and being on balance when it hits you have a window of 1.034 to spare with perfect curing. This is just with demensce effects and sap though there are other tools you can use to help sap stick and i've just had an idea to help against druids. I was just thinking technically though half the time the target will be just out of stun or attacking you or you'll be webbed or off balance when you want to sap or something.

It's pretty nice, but it has one downside...I won't have trans discipline in the next few months. *cough*

By the by, what were we arguing about again?`

Soap being a way to become immune to druids sweety.

I think if you can scrub/cleanse or what ever its called through sap or web there isnt anything a druid could do to me to kill me.

She has not, but Thorem (sp?) or something has multiple times. He used dreamweaving and his demesne to extremely good effect. I've always had the opinion that dreamweaving was the best secondary skill-set a druid could have if he desired to kill in his demesne.

I think you mean Thaemorn. (Just for clarity.)

Thaemorn with motes was exceedingly nasty.

He probably would have kicked my ass a lot too, but Geb probably couldn't use metawake as well as I could, since he doesn't have the awesome mana regen.

And this is why Runes is good for druids. You can fuse an impatience rune, timed, to hit with the demesne. Means your opponent has to smoke coltsfoot before they can focus body.

I'm of the opinion that Runes is the best choice for a Faeling Blacktalon.

If I time the imaptience and you get stuck in sap, I believe I can keep you paralyzed permantly if you're anything shy of trans discipline, and maybe even if you have trans discipline via Superslinging impatience and paralysis together and using Disease right after the second demesne-hit to increase the chances that you get Blacklung.

If you've got Blacklung, Impatience, and Paralysis standing in the way of you cleansing, that means its going to be a minimum, at Trans Discipline, with perfect curing, of 5.7 seconds (i believe) before Cleanse fires. I can sling MUCH faster than that. Even single-slinging I can out-pace you. Especially when with Confusion/Lethargy I can double the balance/equilibrium recovery which is caused by Murder/Disease/Hallucinations. And of course I can stack masochism/stupidity on top. Oh, and a powersink rune which will add a passive mana-drain.

Yeah, I know this would take hitting at the perfect moment, but any sap-strategy does, and once its started, I really don't see escaping as being plausible, because with my insane sling speed I can continue slipping in those extra afflictions after the demesne hits (except for after the first time, where I've got recovery from sap holding me back).

Now, my system isn't good enough to pull this off yet, as I havn't had the time to devot to building it, so I admit that this is basically an 'it looks good on paper' scenario.. but can anyone find anything i'm missing that would render this strategy not-so-hot against people lacking soap?

Hm, I actually don't see a bad thing in that plan besides ignoring that you could get afflicted/otherwise hindered yourself, for example. Plus, this will workonly good in wisptraps, duels or spars, since otherwise it will be pretty hard for you to set up a demesne and time the rune accordingly too.

If you get the impatience rune to hit with sap and paralysis then against perfect curing and against trans discipline then it is posiable to keep someone sapped forever in your forest.


---/16:16:14.312/ sap hits
---/16:16:14.412/ Impatience hits
start to smoke coltsfoot
---/16:16:14.578/ Paralysis hits
---/16:16:15.412/ best posiable time to cure impatience
start to focus body
+1 second to start it in sap
+1.7 seconds for it to go through
---/16:16:17.770/ you can start to cleanse
1 second for cleanse it to go through
---/16:16:18.770/this is the best posiable time to cure that sap with perfect curing and a 1.7 focus body
---/16:16:18.312/ is when they would be able to web

Chances are no ones curing is as good as that though and they wont have got the paralysis, smoking and cleanse through in the four secs they have. Also people are probally off balance as well with attacking or something.



It does mean a druid has a sure way of sticking sap against anyone one on one inside there demensce, even if they screw it up once they can still try again, no tatics going to work every time and if the druids defensive and stays two or three rooms inside the forest from the edge then there's no way you could roll out before getting killed.