Why would you not get status if someone sacrificed for you, you still died you still lost exp its like saying if serenwilde did a resurgem for me I shouldn’t get status. Sacrifice shouldn’t used be used in conjunction with vitae but if lich can be used with vitae then that needs to be fixed not for the fact that we want you to lose exp its the fact that you should have some type of risk like the rest of us do for your actions. If I go raid Glom and I get killed my only punishment for killing people shouldn’t be just losing my defs and some power and I shouldnt have 3 chances to get away with zero to no lost. You already have an escape method when killed you don’t need one more added on to it.

Because the XP loss is minimal and it is still a rezz ability with a better chance then lichdom to get away. Yes you lose experience.. what 5% max? I'd rather lose that and wake up with no defs in my city and have suspect I really don't see this as a huge problem or balance effecting.

EDIT: Also, with sacrifice you get to go through vitae, which gives suspect. Even if you attack with vitae and die, you have time to run, if they manage to kill you again you just go get sacrificed for. That is two chances of survival. Lichdom is one chance without suspect - no you don't lose EXP but if you get caught, unlike sacrifice it is the end of the road for you and you get to pray.

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that you guys already have the single most powerful exp-loss-avoidance skill in the game AND you can compound that by tacking on an additional defense. I'm not whining that it's hard to make you lose experience, I'm whining that you have to be killed three times to actually get rid of you instead of twice.



Praying's experience loss needs to be reduced; but again, that's another topic entirely.

For the record, transmig > Lichdom.

Wrong. Transmigration is more powerful at avoiding exp loss than lich. If you're going to make sweeping statements, at least be a little more accurate. With transmigrate, you don't even NEED to tack on an additional defence to compound it, you're always safe after it fires.

What is this obsession with experience loss? I really don't understand it. I would be fine with removing all experience loss from death if there weren't so many important skills (and Necromancy roleplay) that were directly related to it, and everyone had to pray or do something similar so they weren't back into the battle instantly.

Also, stop saying this.

I wonder where you got this three chances idea. Or seem to think that you don't have access to similar ways to mitigate lost. Since you are a Serenwilder you can raid Glomdoring, vitae, die, and then have chance of being resurged, since Glomdoring's only method of disposing of corpses is offering is that isn't exactly known for its speed. That is two chances which is the same as lichdom with the use of vitae but less of a power cost, slightly more experience lost, dependence a small group of people. Then you have a third chance if your relations is good with Celest which is sacrifice, which actually doesn't even require that you go all the way to Celest, since sacrifice does not bypass vitae. Admittedly that method also has a slightly increased experience lost, and dependence on one person with the skill. But in your scenario of lichdom/vitae versus what you have access to. I really don't see how you have less of a chance of avoiding praying than a lich.

That's also ignoring situations where using lichdom over vitae is a liability rather than a bonus. Like when a lich is ambushed and a barrier is erected around them. At that point, there is no way for them to escape since ghosts can not move through barrier, and lichdom does not give suspect. Vitae does though, and thus will prevent a person using it from praying if they are not in enemy territory.

Actually... what with spores, some of us have learned to do this pretty quickly, but it means that you have to leave the battlefield to do so. Much of the time, it isn't a possibility, but it CAN be quickly done.

Right, I forgot about transmig, but everyone knows that transmig is ridiculously overpowered and will hopefully be downgraded in the envoy reports.

Yes, I've had corpses dissapear on us pretty quickly before. all someone needs to do is sprint to a shrine and offer if they -really- are determained to make us pray.

Unless we all happen to just be sitting around on the same plane, already circled. Useally people need to teleport nexus, or they don't care and they're killing a few more gorgogs, and you have to yell and scream at them, and then it's to late.

The thing with Lichdom is, like Shamarah was saying, in order to kill you we have to do it THREE times usually. That's a bit much. You are raiding Celestia, groups clash and you die, you relich and are back in the fight, you die, you vitae and again are right back in the fight. Meanwhile the defending party only has one chance (who is going to give you a sacrifice/ressurect in the middle of a battle?). It's just a bit ridiculus to have to kill someone three times just to be assured that they actually die and are out of your plane/area.

And no I am not biased against Lichdom because now I dont have it, I have always thought Lichdom was a bit extreme. Being able to bash -anywhere- and go on suicide runs into villages seems like a bit much to me.

A friend of mine today accidentally walked into an enemy village and was slain by guards, he just laughed it off, reliched, and kept walking. If that was anyone else they would have vitaed and instantly died again then be forced to pray and lose a LOT of bashing work. Disheartening!

I ment to say 2 that was my mistake, but Wesmin has it right I most likely not going to get resurrected with resurgem it takes awhile to get 5 people if they dont know in advance. If I die in Glom vitae and die again im still in enemy territory losing a decent amount of exp. In your case where lich is a liability if i was in the same situation without it I would still die well most people would your in a room with no escape how would i get out and if we are off prime there is no status to save me.

I would just like to hear why is it ok for you to have lich and vitae at the same time I dont see why myself?

And the 2nd and 3rd times we die, we come back with no defences and no power. Stop the whining already.

The first time we die with vitae up we have no power and no defs.

Well all the times we die we come back powerless and defenceless. Not to mention a disgustingly long EQ time on Lichdom which really makes it easy for someone to catch up to us.

Well when we die and come back with have no power and defs and end up in the exact same spot we died in meaning there is no need to catch up to us.

You don't care unless it happens to you and your friends. Since most of your allies will not suffer the pain of praying, then yes it is not a big concern for you. Once your friends do suffer that pain, then you and your friends come and complain on these boards as much as anyone else.

Now I will tell you why I want greater death penalties for those of us at the higher end of lesson investments. The possibility of being forced to pray is a deterrent. It keeps a person from constantly being a nuisance if he knows some of his hard work could be put into jeopardy by his actions. Just the time needed to regain what was lost from a praying death would give people a reprieve from him for awhile. Since you and some of your allies have a very small chance of experiencing a painful death, you could care less how much annoyance your disruptions cause for others. It is only when you guys were forced to pray up on limbo that you felt the pain that many of the lower skilled people feel when having to deal with you. Even then, instead of gaining a bit of empathy for others, your only feeling was a desire for revenge. So you can play like it means nothing to you, but your actions show otherwise.

Just because I really think it needs to be said...why is it so hard for a lich to escape while a soul, but so easy for a dead Celestian to make it back to Celest for a sacrifice?

Yup. Anything that will stop a soul from running to lich will stop a soul from running for a sacrifice.

Mainly because lich has a set time, and after it fires you're off-equilibrium for a considerable amount of time... while the soul has as much time as the person is willing to give it before they pray / find someone.