Torak2006-03-14 03:07:37
Once again you are making too many assumptions, but lets just agree to disagree because this is repetetive and I am going to sleep.
Xavius2006-03-14 03:08:36
QUOTE(Torak @ Mar 13 2006, 09:07 PM) 269531
Once again you are making too many assumptions, but lets just agree to disagree because this is repetetive and I am going to sleep.
It's like assuming the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.
Nymerya2006-03-14 03:09:51
How much power does it take to use lichdom and vitae?
Xavius2006-03-14 03:11:09
QUOTE(Nymerya @ Mar 13 2006, 09:09 PM) 269534
How much power does it take to lich, then vitae?
30. 'Bout what transmigrate costs. If the power cost makes things like this ok, I hereby declare transmigrate fair and balanced.
Nymerya2006-03-14 03:13:31
I'm not trying to argue for the fairness, so keep sarcastic comments out of it, thank you.
How do people actually keep up with that power cost... that's 50 power each time.
How do people actually keep up with that power cost... that's 50 power each time.
Xavius2006-03-14 03:14:46
QUOTE(Nymerya @ Mar 13 2006, 09:13 PM) 269537
I'm not trying to argue for the fairness, so keep sarcastic comments out of it, thank you.
How do people actually keep up with that power cost... that's 50 power each time.
Thirty. Not fifty. If you're not counting the initial setup, it's 10 plus regen.
Nymerya2006-03-14 03:15:55
I'm counting set up, seeing as sometimes people will raid more than once in a day.
Yrael2006-03-14 03:16:26
Transmig is 9% reserves.
8 for animal, 10 for the defence setup. Lich is 10%. Neither are 30.
8 for animal, 10 for the defence setup. Lich is 10%. Neither are 30.
Xavius2006-03-14 03:18:14
QUOTE(Yrael @ Mar 13 2006, 09:16 PM) 269541
Transmig is 9% reserves.
8 for animal, 10 for the defence setup. Lich is 10%. Neither are 30.
Transmig is 8 for rebirth, 10 for deepbond, whatever power you happen to have on death.
Lich is 10 for lichseed, whatever power you happen to have on death.
Vitae is 10 for sip, whatever power you happen to have on death.
Unknown2006-03-14 03:26:26
QUOTE(Daevos @ Mar 14 2006, 01:07 AM) 269458
Shamarah: I'm saying that I dislike this OOC conviction that some seem to have that if my opponent doesn't suffer the maximum hurt possible I have somehow failed as a character. Also you seem to be ignoring that Sacrifice is in a lot of ways better than either vitae or lichdom. It may not be self activated but that is not as great a limitation as you seem to think. It only requires one person who has the skill out of two guilds within Celest, which is less of a requirement than Resurgem. It is also more versatile since it can be used on souls which can move, and its cost can be mitigated.
Anyway, I just see nothing wrong with the various ways of mitigating experience lost in this game, since we are forced to fight so often. Also, I personally do not care if someone I slay on the game loses 1% or 50%, it is enough for me as a person and as a char that they die.
Wow, I agree 100% with Daevos. Well said!
Asarnil2006-03-14 03:59:49
QUOTE(geb @ Mar 14 2006, 01:05 PM) 269496
You don't care unless it happens to you and your friends. Since most of your allies will not suffer the pain of praying, then yes it is not a big concern for you. Once your friends do suffer that pain, then you and your friends come and complain on these boards as much as anyone else.
Now I will tell you why I want greater death penalties for those of us at the higher end of lesson investments. The possibility of being forced to pray is a deterrent. It keeps a person from constantly being a nuisance if he knows some of his hard work could be put into jeopardy by his actions. Just the time needed to regain what was lost from a praying death would give people a reprieve from him for awhile. Since you and some of your allies have a very small chance of experiencing a painful death, you could care less how much annoyance your disruptions cause for others. It is only when you guys were forced to pray up on limbo that you felt the pain that many of the lower skilled people feel when having to deal with you. Even then, instead of gaining a bit of empathy for others, your only feeling was a desire for revenge. So you can play like it means nothing to you, but your actions show otherwise.
Yeah, because Magnagora hasn't been on the short end of the stick in combat in the non-peaced open villages, wildnodes or even in a fight were Daevos/Ixion/Kaervas ARE around. We suffer our share of setbacks, like pretty much every other organisation.
EDIT: Stop the personal attacks. ~Shiri~
Xavius2006-03-14 04:09:05
QUOTE(Asarnil @ Mar 13 2006, 09:59 PM) 269546
Yeah, because Magnagora hasn't been on the short end of the stick in combat in the non-peaced open villages, wildnodes or even in a fight were Daevos/Ixion/Kaervas ARE around. We suffer our share of setbacks, like pretty much every other organisation.
Such irrational Magnagoran defensiveness today!
I don't think Geb is talking much about winning or losing. We're talking more about having equal methods of avoiding praying all around, and how these affect game balance. In fact, none of those methods listed above result in what he refers to as a "painful death."
Asarnil2006-03-14 04:18:12
I suffer "painful deaths" all the time. I don't use lichdom or vitae (well rarely use vitae due to trying to keep on top of my power usage) and die in fights all the time.
Xavius2006-03-14 04:21:00
Because you choose to, or because you're unable to? If power is more important to you than experience, go ahead and make that tradeoff. Plenty of Gloms do (even though immolation costs plenty more than any other resurrection and has more limitations than even Sacraments Ressurect). It doesn't change the fact that these options are available to you and are used by most people who can use them.
EDIT: And you still conglutinate in Wild Nodes and open villages.
EDIT: And you still conglutinate in Wild Nodes and open villages.
Asarnil2006-03-14 04:45:24
Lichdom due to not having the ability, Vitae due to using power too much!
Viravain2006-03-14 05:07:20
I hardly wish to side either way, but looking at the various ressurection skills (namely, sacrifice and lichdom in this case), I thought it might be prudent to point out facts I have yet to see here.
SACRIFICE
Power: 10 or 1 (Pool of Stars)
If there is no body of your fallen comrade, you may still bring him or her back from the dead, but this will take the ultimate sacrifice... of your life. Bringing back another student of sacraments costs 1 power, while all others will cost 10.
So, it is possible to bring back anyone as a soul, for 10 power - if they are even someone young, with a few lessons in sacraments however, it will only take 1 power. Thus, this skill can be used on anyone. Sacrifice is also not a transcendent skill, however, it is still rather high up there. Two guilds have access to this skill, but the third (and any other, in all senses) can benefit from it.
LICHDOM
Power: 10 (Megalith of Doom)
By preparing your body for lichdom, the next time you die, your body will rise again as a lich. As a lich, you will find your strength and intelligence increased at night but, to a lesser extent, decreased during the day. You will also have mild regenerative powers at night. Your touch will freeze others, and you can breathe contagion at half the power cost of casting it. Also, as long as a lich is in the same room as a cloud of contagion, the cloud cannot be blown away. Liches are also immune from ectoplasm. Warriors who become a lich are often referred to as "Death Marshals".
NOTE: When your ghost reforms as a lich, you will be at 0 power and have a loss of equilibrium.
So, this skill takes 20 power, all the time. 10 for set up, and 10 for when the person dies to reform. This skill cannot be used on another player with the same skillset for less power cost. It cannot be used on another player at all, in fact. It is also the transcendant skill. It has the side benefit of +2 on certain stats at night, and -1 during the day (which there is more of than night). Only two guilds have access to this skill, and only they can benefit from it.
Perhaps I am not a player, nor ever have to worry about death, but I personally look at these skills and must consider them at least fairly balanced, each with the slightly severe tradeoffs in different areas.
SACRIFICE
Power: 10 or 1 (Pool of Stars)
If there is no body of your fallen comrade, you may still bring him or her back from the dead, but this will take the ultimate sacrifice... of your life. Bringing back another student of sacraments costs 1 power, while all others will cost 10.
So, it is possible to bring back anyone as a soul, for 10 power - if they are even someone young, with a few lessons in sacraments however, it will only take 1 power. Thus, this skill can be used on anyone. Sacrifice is also not a transcendent skill, however, it is still rather high up there. Two guilds have access to this skill, but the third (and any other, in all senses) can benefit from it.
LICHDOM
Power: 10 (Megalith of Doom)
By preparing your body for lichdom, the next time you die, your body will rise again as a lich. As a lich, you will find your strength and intelligence increased at night but, to a lesser extent, decreased during the day. You will also have mild regenerative powers at night. Your touch will freeze others, and you can breathe contagion at half the power cost of casting it. Also, as long as a lich is in the same room as a cloud of contagion, the cloud cannot be blown away. Liches are also immune from ectoplasm. Warriors who become a lich are often referred to as "Death Marshals".
NOTE: When your ghost reforms as a lich, you will be at 0 power and have a loss of equilibrium.
So, this skill takes 20 power, all the time. 10 for set up, and 10 for when the person dies to reform. This skill cannot be used on another player with the same skillset for less power cost. It cannot be used on another player at all, in fact. It is also the transcendant skill. It has the side benefit of +2 on certain stats at night, and -1 during the day (which there is more of than night). Only two guilds have access to this skill, and only they can benefit from it.
Perhaps I am not a player, nor ever have to worry about death, but I personally look at these skills and must consider them at least fairly balanced, each with the slightly severe tradeoffs in different areas.
Yrael2006-03-14 05:13:41
I tend to pray on average of twice a play session, and that's not counting when I don't pay close enough attention and don't manage to waltz through Celest like I own the place. So I suffer plenty of "painful deaths" and due to my aversion for bashing (mostly due to said deaths, and the irritating of losing a few hours of work bashing or questing because of one prayer session, even at 66) it hurts quite a bit, kthxbai.
Cwin2006-03-14 06:40:36
I'd like to know what the overall goal of this thread is for: To add more ways for people to avoid praying, or to allow people to have more ways of getting people to pray.
That's all I'm adding, because talks like this make high-target people with only vitae to work with very bitter.
That's all I'm adding, because talks like this make high-target people with only vitae to work with very bitter.
Geb2006-03-14 07:15:52
QUOTE(Daevos @ Mar 14 2006, 04:03 AM) 269525
I stated what I believe, and you can make any assumptions about it if you wish. But really I don't care about your opinions on anything, and especially not your opinion of me. If you believe that people should be hurt more for investing more time and money in this game, ok then. You're obviously entitled to your opinion but don't attempt to paint your ideas as being somehow noble in this case, since I really can't fathom how you could think increased penalties would make this a more enjoyable game. It would only neutralize and further destroy the conflict that is central to the world. Absolutely no one likes to see hours, and days of hard work lost in a blink of a eye and such a change will no doubt drive people away.
I disagree. A change like that would force the higher powered players to be more responsible in their actions. They would be less likely to take out lower powered players with impunity, because they know that the same could happen to them if a group comes for them. Right now, there is nothing to make any of you pause and consider how much you are bothering others with some of your constant raids. Your time and effort is no more precious than anyone else’s in the game, but you (like me and others with our skills) have less to lose than many of the other people. I feel there should be a more level playing field when it comes to death, and that is why I will continue to support the idea that we all should suffer the same penalties from it.
Yrael2006-03-14 07:21:18
Until you get an advantage, in which case it's all fair and balanced.
