If you want to rant about the Game, go to the Idiots forum.

If you want to write constructive Library feedback and provide suggestions, do so here.

Suggestion: Publicize it more. This is a needed from both players and the staff. If I mention the library system to ANY of the novices in my guild, I'm sure that at most one would have heard of it, and probably wouldn't want to do it. Same for most of the lower ranks.

I try to include it in my seeker training.

I take novices to meet the guild tutor then moan about the empty bookshelves and how we need to write/aquire more books.

Erm yea Sorry but I kinda didn't know the library could generate 1000 power that easily until estara posted the annouce saying why isnt anyone submitting and its kinda to late for me to get a book written for the contest this year.

Indeed, Everiine is a bookbinder himself, but has yet to write anything because of one fact: he doesn't know how. The help files on books are unhelpful, as they tell you what books are but not too much on how to write them. The bookbinder help files I cannot find, if there are any. I know there is a printing press in the library in Serenwilde but haven't a clue on how to use it. It took forever to figure out how to see the outlay of a book because it is not explained anywhere. Everiine even messaged the head of the bookbinding cartel in Serenwilde asking for help and never got a response (though that is more of a person problem than a library problem).

I didn't know publishing books actually got you anything. People keep comparing it to village influencing, but how?

I'm sure there are others out there like me who want to write something but have no idea where to begin. I think more and better help files will help ease the problems of the library and book system.

I must not do a good job explaining about the Library System in Serenwilde

I'll be more vocal
Here are some things in place though

CHELP LIBRARY
Also there is an entire clan devoted to writing in Serenwilde that is available for anyone who wants to help out with the library.

That was a rant? I thought it was feedback.

The problem is imbalance. That's the root reason for the imbalance. If you want to correct the imbalance, you look at why, even if the why is source material.

How you would address something like that, I don't know, because I'm not privy to the master plans of Lusternia. But it's there, it's real, and that's the best feedback I can give on what to do if you're unhappy with the performance of the system.

I've been asked questions about book writing which is just odd

The help file for writing on books is HELP EDITOR

I posted a long-ish thing about this topic before, but apparently our network bliped right there and then, and all my valuable comments that you all wanted to hear were lost.

But I will make one point though, I was told it was 19k for a book. For 100 books in a library, that's almost two million gold. In Aetolia, it was 250gp per. Nerf book costs.

In your defense, at the time I think Kalodan(?) was head of Stagleaf when I asked him about bookbinding, and that's who I never got a response from.



Hmm, need to check this out. I seem to remember reading it some time ago, but that was when I still had no idea how to create books, so nothing really made sense.

But yes, not just in Serenwilde, but everywhere, there is a lack of explanation on the library system. I think if more people told more people about how it works, interest would go up. Mine sure has just from this thread.

I resent that implication.

:insertgothsmiliehere:

Glomdoring's just more stereotypically "goth" with the darkness and whatnot, I guess. Same way people insist on labelling Serenwilde a snugglefest.

Goth-smilie, Laysus? Isn't that a contradiction?


*cough* Okay, back on-topic.

Costs for books are quite high. Also, though I may be misremembering, the page-length choices are odd. Doesn't it jump from 2 pages for a scroll to 20 for the next-longest? There should really be 5 and 10 page options.

Personally, I've got a few ideas for books that I'd like to write but time is a big consideration. Writing takes awhile, and rewriting takes awhile. Also have other projects for guild and commune I'm working on, so the personal books just seem to keep getting pushed back.

Hi Elcyrion,

I did a recalc, and I didn't actually spend $100 real world on books, but I think it's about $50. I calculate I spent anywhere from 250,000 to 350,000 gold either with my books, giving books for others, or both. (I sell OOC credits at around 3000 per, I just forgot how much credits cost).

When I give away books, I usually go for the larger books. The base cost of each book--without commodites is the following.


Scroll....................1000
Pamphlet..................2000
Journal...................5000
Textbook..................8000
Book.....................10000
Compendium...............15000
Manual...................20000
Codex....................25000
Tome.....................30000
Omnibus..................40000


Now, take the cost of commodites. The high-level books take anywhere from 25-50 wood. Managora charges 100 gp for wood, so 2500-5000 gp for the wood alone for a larger book. And thus, you could spend a lot of money just copying the larger books. So making copies of large tomes is prohibitive.

Keep in mind that this is just the cost. Nothing about writing time. Now, based on that, how much markup makes the books profitable for a binder.

I've actually given away many empty books. You, Fain, and Isune I believe each got Omnibuses for your orgs, I gave larger books to Marina, Ialie, Serenwilde, Magnagora, and a few individuals and orgs. A donation to a clan of 1 master and about 5 copies cost me about 30,000 gold. I think I might have spent 50,000 alone making copies of my Who's Who (which isn't complete, but I'm doing what I can).

I don't mind doing that as much 'cause I'm not playing this game for combat and can aford to buy OOC credits every few months (though it might not be for a while this year). But I can see others saying "jeez, I can buy armor or greatrobes for these prices".

I do think one thing you guys might have miscalculated is the economic costs and the elasticity of price (to bring up an economic term). I've heard people bitching and moaning about paying 1000 gold to make a public or city news post. I know artisan costs are high because the number of people purchasing is likely to be low, but I don't know if books should be the same

Actually I was kidding about royalties... It might work, but I would be very contented just getting Communefavoured after writing a good book that makes it into the Prestige contest.

Nah, just have to pick them up by the legs and turn them upside-down!

I dont think its just the cost that deturs people, its also not knowing much about bookbinding to begin with...When I first started out bookbinding, I admit I was confused about some things. But after experimenting, I learned most things I needed to know.

A few questions/comments that often come up are these:

People often do not know the difference between and organizational work and a personal work. HELP BOOKS can clear up alot of those questions, so mention it whenever you can.

People also dont know too much about what books have what number of pages. But yes it does go something like scroll is 2 pages, journal is 20, book is 50, manual is 75 pages, and tome is 100 pages. The organization works I suppose work on a similar scale. Most people want no more than a scroll since they are very cheep, like 1 leather and 1000 gold. (Random comment: its cheeper to put something on a scroll then to magically preserve a letter for 2000 gold). And since there seems to be not page lenght restriction, people see no need for getting something bigger than a journal. Some feel even a journal would never be filled up.

People who do trans bookbinding find it hard to copy a book, partly because the instruction in AB BOOKBINDING PRINTINPRESS is either wrong or misleading (I believe I buged this a while back, but recently someone had trouble copying a work). Also, its impossible to copy a personal journal that is given to all novices who step out of the portal as there is no design I know of to tell me what the comms are.

There is also much confusion on who can write in a work. HELP BOOKS again for that, but sometimes a bookbinder will be confused and BOOKBIND FOR when in fact you BOOKBIND it for who the author is going to be. It sounds silly but Im sure many have done this, even I did back in the day. I also noted that people who want an organizational work want all undersecretaries/secretaries/aids and stuff to be able to write in it...I dont think this is such a bad idea but thats just me.

Thats all I can recall right now. Basically the main problems are lack of knowledge about the system, and the confusion it can cause, and also a lack of enthusiasm due to prices for books or lack of incentive.

Just my two gold sovereigns.

Umn, a note but you can have editors...

Also i just had a random flash of paperback editions of books being made for a cheaper layout cost (yay more comms for me to waste )

Maybe books could go into the public domain after a certain amount of time (10 IC years? 25?) and then be freely copyable. But give the author or librarian the option to pay a fee to keep it copyable only by him/herself if they want.



Just reposting what I put in the ideas thread you started a while ago about library logs, Ialie...

Librarian and his/her aides should be able to do LIBLOG from the main library annex and see:

2005/12/20 16:00:00 - Ialie has paid 100 in library fees (checkout book 4444).
2005/12/20 17:00:00 - Ialie has spent to 10000 gold to archive a book (5555).
2005/12/20 17:00:00 - Ialie has spent to 15000 gold to publish a book (5555).
2005/12/20 18:00:00 - Iraen has allocated 48200 gold to the Librarian.
2005/12/20 19:00:00 - A critique has been submitted regarding book 5555.
2005/12/20 20:00:00 - Ialie has submitted a critique of book 9999.
2005/12/20 21:00:00 - Your critique of book 2222 has been evaluated and found valid.
2005/12/20 22:00:00 - Your critique of book 3333 has been evaluated and found invalid, costing your commune its credibility.
2005/12/20 23:00:00 - The publication of a book (1111) is a success. Those who
criticised this book will have their credibility tarnished.


Also...

• I would like to see the ability to withdraw books from the system, or at least to unpublish them... make them out of print? My reason: I have a few shorter literary works published; in the future if I were to compile a "Complete Works of Iraen" or something I'd like to withdraw the originals (or request it from the librarian), as it would be unfair to have the same piece counting twice towards book ratings.
  
• Let blank books be purchaseable in shops. Perhaps enable bookbinders to specify "shop" as a binding (as opposed to a person or org), and then that book is set to the person who buys it from a shop. (For that matter, furniture should be purchasable in shops too!)

Yeah, but you can only have one. The way I understood it was some organization leaders wanted multiple people to write in it since only the author can decide who the editor will be. It would be nice to have more than one person to have permission to write in such a work without waiting to be made an editor if the author is out of the realms.

On a completely different note. I just remembered that the Aquamancer Guild Library bookshelf was empty only a few RL months ago. I think there are only 5 books in it at the moment...I think the bookshelf was there even before I created my character in December. Its odd to see such a scholarly guild with so few books in thier private library, no?