Ialie2006-03-17 15:55:42
QUOTE(ferlas @ Mar 17 2006, 10:41 AM) 270588
Thats the thing I was worried about though, people will stop reading books. It would be really bad roleplay to have something in the commune that obviously aided enemies, Definatly I would say that all books written by enemies of the commune would be banned from the library at least, maby even all celest and serenwilde books, Im sure celest and others would do the same banning all the books that help the tainted, it just isnt in their roleplay to pay royalites to magnagorias.
Its constant conflict in the basin though we cant trade tools, herbs, weapons with our enemies why should we trade books and pay them constantly for it though? Sure it would hurt to take out our enemies books from our library, we would lose power for it wouldn't we? It may be mechanically harmful with the game mechanics but it is good roleplay in the end.
Ah Cool! Don't read the books that works out perfect for me. Means that Glomdoring won't be able to properly critique books at all without checking them out. Which is kinda silly, beacause keeping a single author from getting 10 gold by refusing to read the books only assists Serenwilde in gaining power, but hey. Like I said. Works out for me.
ferlas2006-03-17 16:00:07
QUOTE(Ialie @ Mar 17 2006, 03:55 PM) 270593
Ah Cool! DOn't read the books that works out perfect for me. Means that Glomdoring won't be able to properly critique books at all without checking them out.
Yup as I said it would be mechanically bad for the city or commune not to read the books and pay you, but then it would be good roleplay not to read the books. It just seemed like the game mechanics could punish people for good roleplay.
Ialie2006-03-17 16:01:46
QUOTE(ferlas @ Mar 17 2006, 11:00 AM) 270596
Yup as I said it would be mechanically bad for the city or commune not to read the books and pay you, but then it would be good roleplay not to read the books. It just seemed like the game mechanics could punish people for good roleplay.
Yes it would be awesome roleplay to choose not to fork over 10 gold to Serenwilde authors in lieu of handing over power to our commune. Especially while Serenwilde has no problem with checking out books written by Glomdoring to read them.
Iraen2006-03-17 16:02:28
Well, the other option would be to just set the library checkout fee to 0. Then nobody gets any gold and you can still read the books. 
ferlas2006-03-17 16:06:46
QUOTE(Ialie @ Mar 17 2006, 04:01 PM) 270598
Yes it would be awesome roleplay to choose not to fork over 10 gold to Serenwilde authors in lieu of handing over power to our commune. Especially while Serenwilde has no problem with checking out books written by Glomdoring to read them.
I dont know it just seems wrong to me for celestials to be reading propaganda books by the tainted vise versa and all. Thats just my view though if you think its fine to pay your enemies thats your choice.
Ialie2006-03-17 16:08:58
What a better way to know your enemies, but besides the point a librarian has to read books in order to ciritique them which is the best thing you can do for your commune if you do not want the other cities and commune to generate more power. If you are honestly telling me that you won't let your librarian read books in order to critique them because it gives the author 10 gold. I am going to laugh my ass off.
Also if you truely leave it up to "rp" to decide that you won't check out books becauase of this then this isn't the fault of the library system it is the way you choose to play, and no you wouldn't be punished for "good rp" you would just have to understand that "your rp" .. playing it through has certain consequences and you would have to deal with them and make choice.
Also if you truely leave it up to "rp" to decide that you won't check out books becauase of this then this isn't the fault of the library system it is the way you choose to play, and no you wouldn't be punished for "good rp" you would just have to understand that "your rp" .. playing it through has certain consequences and you would have to deal with them and make choice.
Shyshaeia2006-03-17 16:51:58
Besides scholars generally do RP being more open, or at least in my experience. I know my character would very much like to know how Magnagorans see the Demon Lords and such, propoganda or no. Knowledge is power. Besides, I think the author's gain from having his or her books checked out by those of another nation would be that bad. It may actually encourage those of other nations to RP a bit of tolerance. Reading another nations work should not be concidered heresy or a traitorous act...that just is way over the top to me.
Unknown2006-03-17 16:59:43
I have to admit I still don't see your main argument. I can understand you not wishing to bestow the hefty sum of 10 gold upon your enemies, but as it is, I don't think anyone really reads all the Celestian propaganda anyway.
On the same hand though, the first rule of war is to know your enemy, what better way to do this than to read all the propaganda they so conveniently brought to your library? As ever there are several ways to look at this problem but none of them will be made worse by the creation of a honorarium, since said problems already exist, you already pay money to check out books from enemy organisations, which goes into upkeeping the library which is largely filled with enemy books. By your reasoning we shouldn't really have libraries because doing so will allow enemy organisations to publish books and thus grow stronger.
Again though, you're quite welcome to roleplay this as you see fit, no one is forcing you to read books. And the earlier suggestion also goes: simply set library fees to 0 and you won't be paying anything to your hated enemies... of course, your city will also lose an even bigger profit, but I suppose that's a sacrifice that will have to be made.
On the same hand though, the first rule of war is to know your enemy, what better way to do this than to read all the propaganda they so conveniently brought to your library? As ever there are several ways to look at this problem but none of them will be made worse by the creation of a honorarium, since said problems already exist, you already pay money to check out books from enemy organisations, which goes into upkeeping the library which is largely filled with enemy books. By your reasoning we shouldn't really have libraries because doing so will allow enemy organisations to publish books and thus grow stronger.
Again though, you're quite welcome to roleplay this as you see fit, no one is forcing you to read books. And the earlier suggestion also goes: simply set library fees to 0 and you won't be paying anything to your hated enemies... of course, your city will also lose an even bigger profit, but I suppose that's a sacrifice that will have to be made.
ferlas2006-03-17 17:01:38
QUOTE(Ialie @ Mar 17 2006, 04:08 PM) 270603
What a better way to know your enemies, but besides the point a librarian has to read books in order to ciritique them which is the best thing you can do for your commune if you do not want the other cities and commune to generate more power. If you are honestly telling me that you won't let your librarian read books in order to critique them because it gives the author 10 gold. I am going to laugh my ass off.
Also if you truely leave it up to "rp" to decide that you won't check out books becauase of this then this isn't the fault of the library system it is the way you choose to play, and no you wouldn't be punished for "good rp" you would just have to understand that "your rp" .. playing it through has certain consequences and you would have to deal with them and make choice.
Fair enough maby I am being silly, just people do actually do things that are ooc and mechanicaly stupid because its good roleplay. It is their choice entirely they could avoid doing it if they wanted to your right about that.
EDIT: Oh just while I remember there dosnt seem to be many incentives to check the books back into a library at the moment, is it posiable to set it so you can check a book out for say 500 gold then when you check it back in you get 400 back or something like that?
Iridiel2006-03-17 17:19:36
What best roleplay that read a book by an enemy famous author and write a long essay on where exactly that person is mistaken and where is just misguided by the wrong beliefs of their organization?
Also you could organize a ritual burning of the books in question. Having them in the library available to all poor newbies isn't so good, though. Just imagine, they poor little minds being perverted!
Check the Church libraries during the Middle Ages
They actually had tons of "forbidden" books that only a few were enlightened enough to read and critique (the librarians). It's a lovely fanatic use of the culture in my eyes
Also you could organize a ritual burning of the books in question. Having them in the library available to all poor newbies isn't so good, though. Just imagine, they poor little minds being perverted!
Check the Church libraries during the Middle Ages
They actually had tons of "forbidden" books that only a few were enlightened enough to read and critique (the librarians). It's a lovely fanatic use of the culture in my eyes ferlas2006-03-17 17:25:47
QUOTE(Iridiel @ Mar 17 2006, 05:19 PM) 270612
Check the Church libraries during the Middle Ages
They actually had tons of "forbidden" books that only a few were enlightened enough to read and critique (the librarians). It's a lovely fanatic use of the culture in my eyes Thats a good idea, Didnt think of that we could make it so everyone can only read commune written type people books and only let the head honchos read the books by enemies.
Iridiel2006-03-17 17:30:29
QUOTE(ferlas @ Mar 17 2006, 06:25 PM) 270614
Thats a good idea, Didnt think of that we could make it so everyone can only read commune written type people books and only let the head honchos read the books by enemies.
Make a law. RP enforcing it.
If you're caught perusing a book into our sacred list of forbidden books, into the category "forbidden", we'll skin you and burn you slowly on a giant fire.
Aiakon2006-03-17 17:38:20
QUOTE(Shyshaeia @ Mar 17 2006, 04:51 PM) 270608
I know my character would very much like to know how Magnagorans see the Demon Lords and such, propoganda or no.
There's a fair few books out there already on this subject.. though your library has probably placed them in a restricted section so that you can't get to them without access.
QUOTE
Knowledge is power.
You sound like an embryonic Raezonite. You should think about joining his order.
Nihmriel2006-03-17 18:38:33
QUOTE(Catarin @ Mar 16 2006, 08:55 PM) 270341
It's also just as population based as village influencing. If your organization has a small group of active people, chances are good they are never going to be able to keep up with an organization like the Serenwilde. People might just give up after awhile. Lots of work, little return, little chance of ever "winning". For you to get any culture beyond the basic credibility (assuming you didn't get critiqued to hell), cultural activity, and scholars, you have to "beat" someone else in at least some category. To get a lot of power, you need to be dominant in several categories.
So, technically, there isn't a lot of power to be had. There is a set amount of power that requires that you have a good sized population with several decent writers to access it. In addition to that, you have to be hoping that the people ahead of you are just sitting around not doing anything because if you're behind and the people ahead of you are still working you have no real reasonable chance to catch up.
So it's a situation where someone like the Glomdoring could publish 20 good books in a year. That's a lot of work right? But if Celest publishes 21 and they're already ahead and the other organizations just kind of keep their lead, the Glomdoring is going to get squat. So there is a very real possibility that a lot of effort could result in no gain. Yes, they might win the prestige contest but that is such a subjective thing you can't exactly count on it.
It's a little off topic, but I wanted to respond particularly to the comments made about the difficulty in beating Serenwilde due to its population. From the outside I'm sure it would look that way, but here's how things actually stand in Serenwilde.
Seren leadership currently offers NO incentive whatsoever to its citizens to write. No credits, no favours, in fact, speaking from personal experience, not even a "thank you". The effect is that, far from the small army of writers one might expect Serenwilde to possess, there are really only a few people who write at all regularly. As such the competition isn't nearly as stiff as you might think. If other cities/communes were to make more of an effort to encourage people to write, I think you could catch Serenwilde comparatively easily - especially as some of its current writers will inevitably become bored, sooner or later, with a pastime that's about as productive for one's character as chucking the books into the Inner Sea.
Ialie2006-03-17 18:57:19
QUOTE(Nihmriel @ Mar 17 2006, 01:38 PM) 270633
It's a little off topic, but I wanted to respond particularly to the comments made about the difficulty in beating Serenwilde due to its population. From the outside I'm sure it would look that way, but here's how things actually stand in Serenwilde.
Seren leadership currently offers NO incentive whatsoever to its citizens to write. No credits, no favours, in fact, speaking from personal experience, not even a "thank you". The effect is that, far from the small army of writers one might expect Serenwilde to possess, there are really only a few people who write at all regularly. As such the competition isn't nearly as stiff as you might think. If other cities/communes were to make more of an effort to encourage people to write, I think you could catch Serenwilde comparatively easily - especially as some of its current writers will inevitably become bored, sooner or later, with a pastime that's about as productive for one's character as chucking the books into the Inner Sea.
No incentive? I find that a bit inaccurate.
QUOTE
SERENWILDE NEWS #1371
Date: 10/25/2005 at 14:10
From: Ialie, the Mystericon
To : Everyone
Subj: Literature Contest
Greetings Serenwilde,
I think it is time that we have a new literature contest. A few things
have changed a bit from the last contest so please read carefully.
From now Until Avechary of next year I will be accepting your original
literary or scholarly works. Feel free to write about anything you wish.
Keep in mind though that if you are submitting a poem that it looks
better if you are submitting a group of poems rather than just one.
When the contest is over, we will select three winners amongst all the
entries and they will be issued prizes. If your entry is not among these
three, there is still a very good chance that you will be published.
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PRIZES
1) 10 credits, 1 custom jewelry design
2) 10,000 gold 1 custom jewelry design
3) 1 custom jewelry design
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RULES
o To enter all you must do is send you final finished copy of your
written work to me via mail and send me a message telling me you have
sent it. There is NO ENTRY FEE!
o Keep in mind that your entry must be completely your own. Plagiarism
is a disgusting offense and measures will be taken when you are caught.
o You must have your entry in by the end of Avechary of next year.
o Submissions will be judge on a variety of criteria, including comment,
spelling/grammar, effective presentation and overall quality.
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If there are any questions please contact me. Feel free to send me a
message. I am very much looking forward to your entries.
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Penned by my hand on the 6th of Avechary, in the year 131 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1425
Date: 11/13/2005 at 21:09
From: Ialie, Ays Tiyrl Lyreth
To : Everyone
Subj: Literature contest Winners
Greetings Serens!
This literature contest went a lot better than the previous one and
without further hesitation I will announce the winners.
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~**First Place**~
Kagestasi - The Return of the Lost
Prize - 10 credits, 1 custom jewelry design
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(Serenwilde): Everiine says, "Hail Seren!"
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~**Second Place**~
Derian - A Home for the Hunted
Prize - 10,000 gold 1 custom jewelry design
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~**Third Place**~
Xephilia - The Collected Poems of Xephilia part 1
Prize - 1 custom jewelry design
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If you have not received your prizes please contact me and we will get
them to you as soon as possible.
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I want to thank all of you that participated. Not only have you shown
your literary greatness, but you have also helped in bringing culture
and art to your peers here in Serenwilde.
Penned by my hand on the 12th of Roarkian, in the year 132 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1448
Date: 11/26/2005 at 17:46
From: Ialie, Ays Tiyrl Lyreth
To : Everyone
Subj: Contest
Greetings Serens.
I've decided to hold another contest! This one is fairly easy and a lot
cheaper to participate. It will be best if everyone in Serenwilde took
part.
This contest will be a limerick contest.
A limerick is a light humorous, nonsensical, or bawdy verse of five
anapestic lines usually with the rhyme scheme aabba.
For example;
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There once was a prince from the Celest,
Who proposed a dastardly quest,
He was really quite mean,
And not what he seemed,
But proved to be quite the pest.,
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RULES
To enter all you need do is mail or message me your entry. If you mail
me your entry please remember to put your name on it, or it will be
credited as unknown. All entries have a chance at being placed in a book
and submitted to the library. Your name will be either credited in the
back of the book or on the page that the limerick is written on. We have
not decided yet. I've also not decided on a closing date for this
contest. I suppose it will run until I feel we have enough entries.
~**Also keep in mind that you may submit as many entries as you want**~
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PRIZES
As said before all entries have a chance at being placed in the book
based only on quality, but one person with the best limerick will win 30
credits. So everyone do your best! If you have any questions, please
contact me.
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Penned by my hand on the 19th of Roarkian, in the year 133 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1473
Date: 12/15/2005 at 6:19
From: Ialie, ays Tiyrl Lyreth
To : Everyone
Subj: Contests
I would just like to apologize for the delay.
The winner of the Limericks Contest is Rizzen! Congratulations. Your
prize of 30 credits will be given to you immediately.
With this bit of good news I would also like to announce the beginning
of a new contest.
The Serenwilde Poetry Contest.
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RULES
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o The theme of this contest is of nature. Any poem that does not have a
nature-themed subject will be excluded from the contest.
o Entries will need to be submitted to me by letter and must include a
name. Any works submitted that does not include a name will immediately
be disqualified unless the author specifies he would like to remain
anonymous.
o All works must be your own works. Plagiarism will not be tolerated.
o There is no limit on how many poems you can submit.
o The contest will end shortly after we feel that we have received
enough entries.
o All entries have the potential of being published into a book. If you
do not want to be published please do not submit an entry.
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PRIZES
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First Place: 30 credits
Second Place: 5000 gold
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Penned by my hand on the 7th of Avechary, in the year 135 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1479
Date: 12/27/2005 at 14:00
From: Ialie, ays Tiyrl Lyreth
To : Everyone
Subj: Poetry Contest
Greetings Serens!
I want to thank you for a great poetry contest. Without further
hesitation I will announce the winners!
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~**First Place**~
Suzari - Mother's Grace
Prize - 30 credits
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~**Second Place**~
Rizzen - The Spirits of Nature
Prize - 5000 gold
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These poems and others have been published in a book titled;
Celebration of Nature
Any of you who didn't participate this time and would like to
participate in another contest it would do you good to look at the poems
written here for an example.
If you have not received your prizes please contact me and we will get
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them to you as soon as possible.
I want to thank all of you that participated. Not only have you shown
your literary greatness, but you have also helped in bringing culture
and art to your peers here in Serenwilde.
Penned by my hand on the 24th of Vestian, in the year 136 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1508
Date: 1/5/2006 at 21:34
From: Ialie, ays Lyreth ey Xalya
To : Everyone
Subj: POETRY CONTEST
The Serenwilde Poetry Contest
EMOTIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------
RULES
------------------------------------------------------------------
o The theme of this contest is emotions. Any poem that does not have a
emotion-themed subject will be excluded from the contest.
o Entries will need to be submitted to me by letter and must include a
name. Any works submitted that does not include a name will immediately
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be disqualified unless the author specifies he would like to remain
anonymous. To send a letter all you need do is visit a post office and
REQUEST a LETTER. After you have written upon the letter just take it
back to the post office and mail the letter to me. For more information
on how to do this please read the scroll HELP MAIL.
o All works must be your own works. Plagiarism will not be tolerated.
o There is no limit on how many poems you can submit and there is no
minimum or maximum length the poem has to be. As always we look for
quality not quantity.
o The contest will end shortly after we feel that we have received
enough entries.
o All entries have the potential of being published into a book. If you
do not want to be published please do not submit an entry.
o For any other questions please contact me or Iraen.
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PRIZES
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First Place: 30 credits
Second Place: 5000 gold and 1 Private Jewelry design
Third place: 1 private Jewelry Design
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Penned by my hand on the 22nd of Urlachmar, in the year 137 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1536
Date: 1/24/2006 at 6:23
From: Ialie, ays Lyreth ey Xalya
To : Everyone
Subj: Contest
Greetings Serens!
I would just like to finally announce the winners to the Poetry contest!
Third Place: Mother's Grace by Suzari
PRIZE: 1 private Jewelry Design
Second Place: Love is by Allia
PRIZE: 5000 gold and 1 Private Jewelry design
First Place: Willow by Laneth
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PRIZE: 30 credits
Congratulations to the winners!
For those of you who haven't received your prizes please contact me.
Penned by my hand on the 13th of Tzarin, in the year 138 CE.
SERENWILDE NEWS #1567
Date: 2/13/2006 at 4:52
From: Ialie, ays Lyreth ey Xalya
To : Everyone
Subj: Tri-Guild Scholarly Contest
Greetings Serens!
I come to present another contest. It will be slightly different this
time around in that the winner will benefit their entire guild by
gaining the guild credits to do whatever they may wish.
RULES-------------------------------------------------------------
You may write about any topic you wish, but it must be scholarly,
meaning that it may not be a poem or a short story. It must be factual
or at least a theory. For example a book with a subject about Krokani
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culture would be excellent.
All books may have the opportunity of being published, but the author
who is deemed the winner of the contest will receive 100 credits to
their guild, 25 credits for themselves, and a commune favour.
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PRIZES------------------------------------------------------------
There is a minimum word count of one-thousand words and all works should
be submitted to me in their finished form (within a book, or some other
type of bookbinding craft), but If you have trouble with finances and
need assistance getting the proper materials please contact me. I will
do everything I can to assist you in submitting your work.
Please keep in mind that the welfare of the library is as important to
Serenwilde and is equivalent to influencing one of the villages to
follow our beliefs or at least accept our protection. The better our
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library is, the more cultural points we receive and just about every
weave these points are generated into power by the fates and put within
the nexus, so even if you do not win I have no doubt that every
submission will be nothing but beneficial to the library. I urge any who
can to participate and help me continue to keep Serenwilde one of the
best libraries within the basin.
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SAMPLE TOPICS-----------------------------------------------------
o Culture and history of Candyland
o Racial culture
o Flora and fauna of Serenwilde
o Flora and fauna of Glomdoring
o Effects of Aethership Techonology on Serenwilde culture
o Biography of Miakoda
o Biographies on the Leaders of Serenwilde
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Ialie2006-03-17 19:05:06
Also like to mention that each and everyone of these prizes came out of my own pocket and even with the contest prizes it is still very hard to get many people to contribute. For example My tri-guild scolarly contest where I am offering 100 credits to the guild 25 to the person.a guild favour and a commune favour. only one person has entered so aye, saying that there is very little insentive or even a thank you is every inaccurate. Perhaps there aren't any commune sponsored insentives, but there are insentives that I give out.
Catarin2006-03-17 19:09:40
I wasn't really referring specifically to any organization with that. Just that the potential for an organization with a bigger population is greater than that of a smaller one. All other things being equal, the organization with more people will produce more books. Culture score is based on how much writing you have and the more selection you have the more chances you have of winning prestige as the probability is you will have at least some percentage that aren't horrible. And honestly, it doesn't really matter if they are bad as long as they're not as bad as other people's.
Since the culture and power gain is based solely on "beating" the other organizations those organizations with more people will find it much easier to excel than those with smaller organizations. Which really does not give smaller organizations much incentive to participate. They'd have to break their back to excel whereas a bigger organization might put forward half the effort and beat them anyway.
Which is why I suggested giving some power based on how many respected books they had at any given time. This will encourage participation simply because you will get SOMETHING for participating even if you don't necessarily "win".
Since the culture and power gain is based solely on "beating" the other organizations those organizations with more people will find it much easier to excel than those with smaller organizations. Which really does not give smaller organizations much incentive to participate. They'd have to break their back to excel whereas a bigger organization might put forward half the effort and beat them anyway.
Which is why I suggested giving some power based on how many respected books they had at any given time. This will encourage participation simply because you will get SOMETHING for participating even if you don't necessarily "win".
Daganev2006-03-17 19:15:30
Actually, one thing I like about the library system is that its really more individually based than population based.
One person could be more prolific than the rest of the basin combined, its happened before.
The library system is the one thing that gives a place like Glomdoring a chance to get large amounts of power. Winning that one prestige award brought glomdoring up to second place in a catagory even though it had half the number of books as any other org.
One person could be more prolific than the rest of the basin combined, its happened before.
The library system is the one thing that gives a place like Glomdoring a chance to get large amounts of power. Winning that one prestige award brought glomdoring up to second place in a catagory even though it had half the number of books as any other org.
Unknown2006-03-17 21:57:28
I think everyone has stated their opinions by now so I'm closing the thread. We'll look into the suggestions when time allows.
My thanks to everyone who contributed, some suggestions were outright excellent.
My thanks to everyone who contributed, some suggestions were outright excellent.
