Should be noted that wrack costs 5p, but only if it works. If you fail a wrack, it doesnt take the power. If you fail an absolve, it takes the full 8p. Every round against a nihilist you are taking the demon afflictions + a round of charybdon (the tail which works on its own balance) + an affliction from contagion + whatever else the nihilist is throwing at you. To me that seems fine, Celestines arent godly in comparison, just few people seem to utilize the nihilist skills all that well. Torak and Eiru use them perfeclty fine, I dont see them having much trouble killing people.

If it matters, as this wasn't the point of the post, Angels weren't always random, and if they are now, it was a change from the first...6 months of the game?

I specifically remember investing in order I wanted them to come out to best maximize their effectiveness. I also specifically remember hearing plenty of bitching about how the demons didn't do that, and I was being lame.

And torture sucks.

In the bad way.

I'm interested in Draconis Vs Barkskin actually.

It is interesting to note that while Barkskin is available to the Mage/Guardians of the communes, Draconis is available to the Warriors/Guardians of the cities.

Talk to Torak about fighting Faelings sometime. Really.

I have, he was complaining about being unable to kill you with wrack. That's a different matter though which I think "They" said they are changing anyways.

I feel like being totally random at the moment, so I chose this thread at random just to post this image.

asarnil, you noob.

since we are on the subject of nihilist skills and how suck ass they are, I would like to point out something about torture. Sure, its 3 power ( too much imo ) heh, but if torture doesn't connect with its target ( if it fails, person is already unbound ) it still takes the three power. Oww.

Correct. Learned up to Demon and up to omen, killed about half of Celest with just sensitivity omen and torture.

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Now about absolve and wrack. Failed absolves costs 8 power, so if you fail an absolve, your offense is gone. Wrack takes 5, however, a failed wrack wastes NO power.

And halo is 10% all types of damage. Putrefaction > numen for 2 reasons. 1) When you activate numen, you use 4 power. You can't absolve since A) Amissio without quickening is too weak and slow to dampen that mana below half and 2) If you do quickening, you won't have 8p for the absolve. And 2) When you activate numen, your stuck with hampering the opponent with tarot or just gathering soulless rubs, due to wasting power for numen.

I think the Guardian class in general need new ways to afflict enemies passively, like Nihilists tail. Scroll of curses is too slow (even being a mugwump, its pretty slow) and the afflicts aren't that great.

Psh I don't think I claimed to do 1k bleeding per torture but its very easy to stack up to 1k bleeding as a Nihilist.

Not if you are fighting someone half decent. Eitherway, I have told multiple people you shouldn't lose power for failing absolve when it is so easily blocked. Also not sure who brought up putre and numen, but both have their ups and downs.

Nilhists are great until you fight someone whos above average in curing, they have nothing paticularly deadly that you have to deal with at all. Celestians would be in the same boat except that they have inquisisiton which is deadly to everyone no matter how well you cure.

And thoros if you want a lovely little contemplation code I got handed to me that pretty much prevents you ever using toadcurse/absolve any time but when the target is below 50% id love to share it with everyone.

And what do Celestines have? I mean you seem to rave about Inquisition, but honestly, its rather easy to avoid too. I can stop anyone getting it by just shield whoring or climbing into a dryad or just moving away and putting up an icewall.

And guardians dont have lots of skills to render you immobile or unable to shield? Inquisition is kinda deadly if you get it on, it gives celestines an other option to kill people with something that nilhists dont have, Celestines have better finishing moves than nilhists who seem to only have wrack or soulless to viably kill anyone with average curing. Celestines have absolve which is easier to get than wrack, you said so yourself even, soulless and inquisition.

So after we do inquisition someone, whats left to do? Flinging soulless only works about 25% of the time, as you still have about 3 seconds to move about before the soulless strikes. We're left with 0 power so all that there is left to do is either fling soulless if you have the 7 rubs or try and cosmicfire to death, which barely works due to the low strength of it.

Though if your anyone real good, you can stop infidel or inquisition pretty easy.

If pulled of completly it strips all defs and pretty much has a long passive stun effect, seriously use your imagination just with the stripping of defs and a brief stun I can think of at least one way to kill someone for definate.

If your thinking via sleep, its not workable, as everytime infidel and inquisition continue to deal passive damage, it wakes the opponent up, along with other damaging, awakening afflictions like vomitting hallucinations and sun allergy.

Nope not sleep, but carry on thinking like that and comming up with ideas to use it more effectivly.

Chances are, Thoros, anyone you fight isn't "real good" in the first place. Celestians have more affliction options within their primary skillset and secondary "rp" skillset (celestialism (whatever)/Sacraments, Nihilism/Necromancy.) Tarot might as well be considered a single-choice skill, because noone but an idiot mugwump would take hexes without the support skills Moon/Shadowdancers get for it an- ..oh. And passive afflictions, plus your pet and whatever you toss onto me, I'd call that pretty damn spiffy, especially with the ability to go higher into heretic. Yes, I know I have tail, but the bulk of afflictions that come out of that are smoke/sippable cures like paralysis, rigormortis the occasional sleep, and once in a blue moon (Roughly every 90 stings from what my shiny TAIL SUPER STING ADDON COUNTER tells me, I'm oh-so-clever). Especially with the damage that it causes. And three seconds? Whoopee, poor darling. IT used to be around ten. You should be able to enlarge/web or afflict them enough to stop them moving for those few seconds. That's the excuse we get for wrack requiring webbing. "It's not big deal!" so why can't you? After all, it's only three seconds. Just like it's only webbing. Repeating self is fun!

Your right. Only real good people I've fought in game are Narsrim Daevos (sort of) Amaru Diamante Torak and a few select others.

Celestines don't get hexes.

And I don't understand the last part of your post.

No, Celestines gets Healing. You want to talk about the single worst skillset for any class: A Celestine with Healing