For what celest gets:
recurrent:
200 power a supernal while they are alive - totems and avatars
Astral nodes - same for everyone
villages - same for everyone
culture - same for everyone


non-recurrent:
bringing in fae or nil beings, one time power addon of 10 for an archdemon of nil, less for the demons and stuff. However the same ammount gets substracted when they get killed.

aetherships - available to all
starlink - somewhat lesser equivelant is moondancer covens
2p a supplicant - communes have their equivelant
essence - available to all

edit: bad me I forgot culture

Villiage, ships and astral linking dont really count

So you get 200 per supernal/deamon lord per weave, how many supernals/lords are there in total? We dont get power for avatars being alive but we do get like 2000-3000 power per weave for totems, trees count but most of the time trees become totems anyway so trees usally dont get any power in at all.

Supplicants are 2 power per quest one handed in just like pixies/shadows? They can generate about 300 to 500 power per weve if someones doing them a lot especiall if you get the novices to do it constantly I think.

Everyone gets 1000 from your star of celest,drums or what ever?

Fae/cherubs/imps technially everyone can do them for additional power.

Does that sound right or am I missing stuff?

Essence is a bit easier for cities too given they can defend it on a plane where someone can't break a demesne, etc.

star is what i call supernals. We get 1000 from the star/supernal


Yes since aquamancers and geomancers constantly keep 4 demesnes on those planes and contanstly attack you there

You miss the point. If you wanted to defend it, you could - and you have a huge advantage.

Thus, your ability to "claim" the essence is there. Whether or not you are lazy and actually do it isn't my concern.

Nothing to do with lazy as more as impossible.

What do you get in counter to our totems big power boost then?

technicly essence.

So the only advantage cities have is the fact of the essence on earth and water?

So communes get 2000 to 3000 power for free and the cities get the earth and water plane essence to harvest?

You can also get power by killing demon lords/supernals. I know it sounds crazy now, but it used to be highly effective. I remember slaying Gorgulu like 2-3 times in 2 in-game months.

Was that before or after they were buffed?

Well, which buff? They have buffed like 5 times now or more.... this was somewhere in the middle.

Well how about, how effective or easily can you kill one now?

Like how many people and what level would you need to get one at the moment?

I tried one as an Igasho on the Testserver, Ashtorath. Down from 5.1k health to 0 in one hit.

So they wouldn't really be a power source at all except on really rare ocasions?

Cities need more effort to get more power and can you even get 2000 to 3000 power without a huge ammout of effort to compare to the totems?

What Narsrim fails to mention is each time he slaid him Magnagora would come slay a supernal and make us lose that power anyway. Yes we lose a lot of power by losing a supernal, Magnagora loses a lot of power by losing demonlords. Magnagora's retaliation was often worse then the power we gained.

Another thing to consider is defense. A city had 4 entrances/exits. Every outdoor room can have an active statue. That's pretty nice.

While yes, Communes can get totems, we are talking what... 20 active totems at a time (which fades) versus 60+ statues?

Thus, Communes really have to spend more power on guards if they want to protect their borders. There is a reason I can raid Glomdoring on prime with a hand tied behind my back, but have never raided Magangora.

yes just last night that statue killed Kaervas all by itself!

You don't have to protect your entire forest, only the really important places where important denizens reside, because you know people can fly over guards anyway.

wow.. lots of different topics.

As far as the imp/cherub thing goes, the cites don't really need that. If Serenwilde can go out of their way to work the Sea battle quest that they don't recieve any real gain in, Magnagora can help Glomdoring bind the fae in shadows.


As for the whole Sea battle, Aiakon, NO you and the other people who've been doing it for a year shouldn't be the primary people doing it. Magnagora's too reliant on it's elders and top officials in any case. The top people should be Organizing the act and shaking up the younger people to do the job. Dang it, two level 30 Ur'Guards strait out of novicehood can do the quest as well as anyone can! I'd rather the stronger people grab a few astral corpses for Ladantine (honestly, raising him takes 10 minutes MAX with one person looking for the pearl and the other hunting astral) then watching for enemy forces.

Also, we shouldn't even HAVE to do quest. We SHOULD be winning that blasted battle! Raise Ladantine, grab some Dolphins, and a quick scan to kill turtles, and we're done. Two level 70s can zip through that (70s so that they can handle some Celest resistance).

The main issues with Sea battle and Magnagora are, in truth, a Magnagoran issue. It'll be dealt with on player terms (or I'll burn out trying).


As for the whole city/commune thing: They are NOT going to be comparable the way you're trying to compare it. Cities have two planes to worry about to the communes one. Cities have a better access to Astral. Communes have guards by their avatars. Cities have better access to essense. Communes have better access to potions and wood. Cities have Laetita. Communes can easily abuse trees and the underground.

We go through this ALL the time. Communes and cities work more like Starcraft: uncomparable advantages and disadvantages that all come together to balance the sides. As such, nit picking the details is useless: You have to take the thing as a whole to figure it out.

And as a whole, most of the true advantages Serenwilde has is player based: more people, more active 'big star' fighters (do you EVER log off, Narsrim?), stronger friendshiip with Celest. Magnagora, I can definatly say, have ALOT to work on internally before we can begin to judge the true imbalance between the two.


As such, all suggestions I throw out in 'balance' are anticipitory: In the assumption that Magnagora can get their act together and match up to Serenwilde. When I look ahead, I see, for example, the fact that when the time comes to assault Serenwilde, there's few ways to weaken them (The Avatars, I consider 'late game': What you attack AFTER the group is weak. Note that Nil can be raided because Magnagora is already in that weakened state). In short, we need conflict quests. It doesn't have to be City vs Commune: A quest aimed at Glomdoring but with Magnagora able to make it work does the job. Then, we don't have to go doing hit and runs on Serenewilde Prime to take them down (note: I'm generally against Prime nation raids: too easy to frighten the youngins and too little gain, especialy since we already have the mentality of hurting a nation indirectly).

And to the majority of this thread.. BLAH.

By the way, Ferlas, if you're going to mention spikes / supplicants, you HAVE to mention shadows and pixies. While the quest involved is MUCH less drawn out for the Communes, it is the similar quest nonetheless (2 power for each spike/shadow/etc., and they power the Necromantate/Drums/etc., which gives 1000 power a weave).

I find that power-wise, we make a LOT more in a month than cities passively, due to totems. We then spend essentially all of that totem power on guards. It would be extremely easy to drop another 60 guards on Ethereal (another 1500 power per weave, over *half* of the total power our totems generates) and it STILL wouldn't be invader-proof. There are holes in both sides, it just becomes more difficult. On the other hand, is VERY possible for an organization with unfettered access to the Elemental planes to surpass the totem generation, especially with four or five sands empowering the Lords. The city equivalent to Ethereal would be Earth/Water, which you don't generally station a total of 80-140 guards on.

Yes, the Communes have access to Earth and Water as well, though I know at times our gathering of essence is "discouraged". We also have a 3-person cone (which is rather difficult, unless all three can tank 3 super-astral NPCs) as compared to your one-person link.

Passive power generation is preferable because it's difficult to get everybody to harvest essence 24/7 (barring a power contest), yes, but the Communes ARE paying excessively for that extra power generated.