(This post is an outright copy of this. I just thought it would be better to give its own home than let it sit there hidden in Yrael's thread, since you should all read what I linked at the bottom of it. Call it a thread fork.)

Let me tell you children a little story.

A certain player (Let's call him Wes because that's his name) joined a certain MUSE (Multi User Shared Environment) once. It was a Star Trek MUSE, and his character decided to join Starfleet. So, he went through a crash course in the game, learned the basics, played, had fun, and promptly screwed up. He got kicked out and went join Federation Merchant Marines. In that organization, Wes thrived as a leader and roleplayed. Eventually the FMM became an envied RP spot. Their secret? They never relied on staff to provide entertainment for them. Wes and other FMM experienced players tried to always provide something to do.

Then the space travel system in the game got shut down for remodeling. And while other organizations foundered from lack of roleplay, the FMM thrived. While most players were frustrated and bored, FMM players considered that time to be one of the most fun.

Now, children, what does that tell us? In any massive, persistent, roleplaying game (Or in a LARP) if you trust the overworked staff to provide amusement for you, you'll be bored to tears in no time.

Lusternia's strengths are two: The combat system, and the immense, detailed, beautiful world crafted by the producer, our Divine, and our mortal builders; and the roleplay that comes with it. The first one can get boring quite soon. The second one is much more accessible, and it allows for endless variety, change, and fun among players. Among all aspects of Lusternia, roleplay is the one with the most potential for providing enduring, everchanging, interesting entertainment.

(You can find the original document here. You should read it. Seriously.)

I wholly agree with your statement that players should not rely on divine to initiate roleplayed events, and that roleplay (in general) is one of the most important parts of Lusternia.

However, reading through the article you posted, I realized that I personally don't like that sort of roleplay - hard roleplay, where you are simply an actor wearing a mask and costume and doing your job by advancing the story of the play. If I did, it is very likely I would not be playing a MUD like Lusternia, where so much of the virtual world itself is designed to be enjoyed... not just provide a convenient backdrop to a collectively authored novel.

If you do not invest at least a part of yourself into your character, immerse yourself slightly in the beautiful and engaging world of the Basin and Planes, then all character development is purely that. If there is nothing of 'you' in your character, then you gain and learn nothing as your character grows and matures. It might be an interesting story, but like a good book or film, its pure entertainment. MUSH's like this appeal quite a bit to socializers, but leaves other types feeling rather let down.

Yes, hard roleplayers are to be admired for their interest in objective storytelling and on-the-fly prose, but that does not mean that immersive or soft roleplayers are somehow less capable, ignorant or 'mentally unhealthy' (as the article purports) - they just enjoy something different.

The point you are making I agree with, but not the link.

It's true that Lusternia conducts to some lighter, less involved RP than some other games, but you have to balance things. Characters that are nothing but a screen name over the player aren't characters, they're avatars. And while serious, involved, complex characters with a mind of their own are definitely possible and interesting, they're by no means required. You can put a lot of yourself into a character without making the character just a version of yourself; writers and actors do it all the time, and roleplaying is just a hybrid between acting and writing.

Roleplaying is just a hybrid between acting and writing, you mean?

My problem with roleplaying in Lusternia is that the game sets you up to play a certain role, depending on your guild affiliation. You are expected to act a certain way, because you are a member of that guild. For instance, as a Celestine, I am expected to love everyone and show compassion for everything around me, because Raziela teaches me to be. But if I wanted to act angry at someone for offending me, I become the bad guy because I'm not following Raziela's teachings. Because of this, I'm hindered from playing the kind of character I want to. I am forced to either suck it up, and be nice like everyone else, or quit the guild and join another.

Disclaimer: If anyone has any comments about my roleplaying in particular, please keep them to yourself. I know I am not liked in game and out. There's no need to hijack this thread.

Er... uhm... I don't know what you're talking about.

That's a problem with the direction of the Celestines (towards snugglyville) rather than with the design (although I do agree that it'd have been better without Raziela).

There are five Supernals. Pick one. You can go with Methrenton and be a psycho killer, or go with Raziela and be a flower-powery hippy.

And the important thing about picking one is that you don't fight with those who picked a different one and making nothing get done ever.

I have Paladins preaching to me about Raziela. That's a problem with the view of Celestines in general, and it pisses me off to no end. When a Paladin preaches to me about acting more in line with Raziela, it makes me get stabby. Very stabby. We need a stabby emote, one way better than this. Something more vicious and bloody.

Right in the eye!

I think you are mistaken here. It may be true that the current batch of players in Celest think this way, however its not what the article means, nor is it how celest was "designed"

As a member of the celestines you are expected to hold the Supernals to be the most holy of beings, and Celest the ultimate form of civilization. I suspect you are also assumed to believe that Water and what is represents, and Light and what it represents is the best philosophy for your charachter (if not everyone else as well). Thats pretty specific in some areas, but its wide open in other areas, such as the means to achive your goals, or how you behave on a daily basis, or how you feel about places that are not Celest or things that are not Water or Supernals.

If your celestian charachter was of the belief that the Demon lords are better than the Supernals, than I hope you are either a spy for Magangora or become a citizen there. Anything else I believe is fair game.

Totally wrong, I'm sorry. People might go off at you and tell you to follow Raz, but you don't have to. You have just as much of a right to follow a different path. Granted, you may get kicked out of the guild, but it's all roleplay. The game doesn't pidgeon-hole people at all but I agree that it's players can tend to.

That said, there are factions in every guild that have slightly or even radically different approaches to beliefs and situations. I can think of a few in the Moondancers alone.

Please tell me they didnt delete chelp compassion?

That applies to Taint. My post was directed at Serens and other Celestians.

And by the way, yes they did.

I'd like to think I'm a prime example of creating my own roleplay, but it's really just theft, havoc (people laughing that hard over one of my deaths is sure to cause an accident of some sort) and the occasional kidnapping, along with spending hours babbling on about the most irrelevant subjects with random Serenwilde/Celest novices I follow around. I still want some Aetolian style fun, where everything except the Bahkata (I think that be the spelling) I can do whatever with, without worrying wether they're tainted or not, or what some idiot who got to cr6 is going to say.

Facists!

Get CR3 or CR5, then the CR6 idiots can do nothing.

NOTHING!

So I've noticed. However, I'm working to pull the guild away from that. Raziela's going to be Shae's last pledge. Already I've put in a test based purely on combat. I'm trying to keep it somewhere between psychokilling and snugglewussy. Dunno how it will turn out, but, we'll see!

This is utterly foolish. The only people that should be expected to be "perfect" Celestines are your guild leadership (GM, GA, GC, Secretaries, Security), and even that's debatable to a degree. Everyone roleplaying that they devoutly follow the beliefs of the Celestines, or unwaveringly believe in them, is boring, and at that point you're all playing cookie-cutter characters.

I have yet to see it done properly (e.g, not blatantly stupid), but it would be very interesting to see a Celestine or Nihilist that doesn't fully believe in what they are taught, or has doubts about their faith, doubting the wisdom or intentions of the Holy Supernals. I think that would add a lot of depth to either guild.



I'm going to disagree, and refer to my above respond to Rauros. Should a good-hearted Celestine who struggles with his beliefs be outguilded? I'm not suggesting that said Celestine should go around preaching this, as that would clearly violate whatever code the Celestines follow, but it would be interesting to see a Celestine who believes (and fears) that perhaps, just perhaps, the Demon Lords really are right, and the Supernals wrong (or Nihilist in reverse). If played subtly and with tact, it could be pretty cool.




Damn right.