Viravain2006-04-10 20:00:20
QUOTE(Tsuki @ Apr 10 2006, 03:49 PM) 277923
So many possible things to respond to, so many personal questions as to whether it matters or not if I respond when what I say doesn't appear to be listened to and considered anyway.
Because some Fae still want/ed to help us. Maeve hasn't and still doesn't especially care one way or the other where the Fae go. Also, because there is inconsistency. Fae came to the Seren and asked for protection, saying they didn't want to be bound in shadows. Other Fae declared to all that no Fae wants to leave Faethorn. Maeve (reportedly) said some of her subjects want to be in the Etherwilde and/or Etherglom but most want to be in Faethorn.
Why would the Fae having individual personalities and opinions count as an inconsistency? They're not all one singular entity. It would be like assuming all player races should always be on the same page.
It makes perfect sense some fae like moon, or like night, or hate both, or love both, or simply tolerate both - or perhaps they simply refuse any, and want to remain in Faethorn. Some consider it merely their duty, and look down on those that refuse to do theirs - and Some Fae want you to help them. Others want you to leave them alone - others still might want to actively work against you.
You can't assume what one says is what another feels.
Ashteru2006-04-10 20:16:32
I was right with my faetheorie, wooh. Every one is a single entitiy. *smooth*
Nokraenom2006-04-10 20:21:35
I haven't bothered to read this thread, as I have no desire to comment on what appears to be, at a cursory glance, a lot of people complaining for the sake of venting frustration.
However, I would like to say this: Thanks, Admins, for taking the time to organize, facilitate, and execute an event that has had profound impact upon the roleplay of Lusternia, and appears to have altered the dynamics of the Commune rp in such a way that adds an interesting and difficult moral dilemma to their actions. I'm sure it takes much more work than any of us realizes to put these events together, and most times they are sorely under-appreciated.
However, I would like to say this: Thanks, Admins, for taking the time to organize, facilitate, and execute an event that has had profound impact upon the roleplay of Lusternia, and appears to have altered the dynamics of the Commune rp in such a way that adds an interesting and difficult moral dilemma to their actions. I'm sure it takes much more work than any of us realizes to put these events together, and most times they are sorely under-appreciated.
Narsrim2006-04-10 20:24:27
I hope Lisaera doesn't mind me posting this, but even the roleplay of other Gods challenges the notion that they "like" Night.
Why would the Fae having individual personalities and opinions count as an inconsistency? They're not all one singular entity. It would be like assuming all player races should always be on the same page.
It makes perfect sense some fae like moon, or like night, or hate both, or love both, or simply tolerate both - or perhaps they simply refuse any, and want to remain in Faethorn. Some consider it merely their duty, and look down on those that refuse to do theirs - and Some Fae want you to help them. Others want you to leave them alone - others still might want to actively work against you.
You can't assume what one says is what another feels.
This post sums up everything we have spent nearly a year and a half trying to foster, preserve, etc. When I read this, I was proud to be a Moondancer.
help lisaera
11.1.8 LISAERA, THE SILVER GODDESS
Ethereal and mysterious, the Elder Goddess Lisaera returned to Lusternia a
century after the return of Roark and Estarra's coming, quickly aligning
Herself with the Serenwilde Commune. Often linked to the Ethereal Realm,
Lisaera has millennia-long ties to the Fae, and is kin to Auseklis, the
First Wanderer and Master of the Wild. Together, They guide the mortals
whose interests lie in the forests and nature.
MOONDANCERS NEWS #247
Date: 3/12/2006 at 14:43
From: Lisaera, the Empyrean Mother
To : Shorlen
Subj: The Night Coven and the Fae
Greetings Moondancers,
I do not post to contest Shorlen's reasons for resigning, not the
validity of his questions. One who does not question his beliefs from
time to time must be afraid of the truth of them. Without doubt, you
have only faith, and faith is a terrible and dangerous thing.
However, what you have said regarding the Shadowdancers is total
nonsense. I -have- seen them harm and abuse the fae, I have seen the fae
enslaved, degraded, insulted, assaulted and all manner of other things
by the "Coven" of Night. My heart bleeds for every spirit of nature that
is forced to suffer their yoke and serve them and their infestation.
Were it not for the binding traditions of the Elders to one another, I
would without a doubt raze every refuge of the Shadowdancers to the
ground Myself, and keep the fae safe by My own argent fire.
Alas, I cannot do this, and for good reason. For if one Elder breaks the
bonds, They all do, and we shall return to the times of the Divine Wars
and the original desecration of the lands.
As for killing shadowbound fae - killing a fae for any reason is
distasteful in the extreme, and I would hope everyone wishing to help
those fae enslaved by the shadow would use the methods Albion has
provided, if those methods are flawed this can be remedied but try
first. However, death IS preferable to life in slavery and unnatural
bondage to corrupted powers, and if he who slew the fae can purify their
body thereafter, then at least their suffering is eased some small part.
Remember that the spirits of the fae are immortal, they will go on
tending nature for millennia long after your bones are gone to dust.
Slavery of a fae is not slavery of a mortal life that has a time of
ending, the powers that bind them in the shadow will continue without
those that bound them. This cannot be allowed for even a second more
than it must.
As for the Taint, fighting the Taint and keeping it from spreading
further across the land, keeping those who serve it at bay and
containing them is the best you can hope for. The Taint has already
irreparably damaged swaths of what was once pure, but at the least you
can hem it in and isolate it, not allow it to do more damage. This is
how you heal the land for now, by not allowing it to receive more
wounds.
As I have said, I cannot do these things for you, children. You have
chosen a hard and unending path in the protection and service of nature.
But as vital as your role is, as important as it is for you to never
waver in your defence of the wilde and the fae, I encourage you all to
examine your beliefs, your motives and everything you do in your lives.
Only by review and improvement can your souls grow, and this is no path
to be trodden by those whose belief cannot stand a little shaking.
Lisaera, the Silver Goddess
Penned by My hand on the 12th of Vestian, in the year 142 CE.
Our path as essentially ignored, dismissed, and spat on in this event. I'm sorry, it was. Everything we are about was torn to shreds and we are now our own enemy. I've heard people mentioning that the Moondancers no longer have any purpose whatsoever. That is not too far off.
QUOTE(Viravain @ Apr 10 2006, 04:00 PM) 277926
Why would the Fae having individual personalities and opinions count as an inconsistency? They're not all one singular entity. It would be like assuming all player races should always be on the same page.
It makes perfect sense some fae like moon, or like night, or hate both, or love both, or simply tolerate both - or perhaps they simply refuse any, and want to remain in Faethorn. Some consider it merely their duty, and look down on those that refuse to do theirs - and Some Fae want you to help them. Others want you to leave them alone - others still might want to actively work against you.
You can't assume what one says is what another feels.
This post sums up everything we have spent nearly a year and a half trying to foster, preserve, etc. When I read this, I was proud to be a Moondancer.
QUOTE(Help Lisaera)
help lisaera
11.1.8 LISAERA, THE SILVER GODDESS
Ethereal and mysterious, the Elder Goddess Lisaera returned to Lusternia a
century after the return of Roark and Estarra's coming, quickly aligning
Herself with the Serenwilde Commune. Often linked to the Ethereal Realm,
Lisaera has millennia-long ties to the Fae, and is kin to Auseklis, the
First Wanderer and Master of the Wild. Together, They guide the mortals
whose interests lie in the forests and nature.
QUOTE(Lisaera post)
MOONDANCERS NEWS #247
Date: 3/12/2006 at 14:43
From: Lisaera, the Empyrean Mother
To : Shorlen
Subj: The Night Coven and the Fae
Greetings Moondancers,
I do not post to contest Shorlen's reasons for resigning, not the
validity of his questions. One who does not question his beliefs from
time to time must be afraid of the truth of them. Without doubt, you
have only faith, and faith is a terrible and dangerous thing.
However, what you have said regarding the Shadowdancers is total
nonsense. I -have- seen them harm and abuse the fae, I have seen the fae
enslaved, degraded, insulted, assaulted and all manner of other things
by the "Coven" of Night. My heart bleeds for every spirit of nature that
is forced to suffer their yoke and serve them and their infestation.
Were it not for the binding traditions of the Elders to one another, I
would without a doubt raze every refuge of the Shadowdancers to the
ground Myself, and keep the fae safe by My own argent fire.
Alas, I cannot do this, and for good reason. For if one Elder breaks the
bonds, They all do, and we shall return to the times of the Divine Wars
and the original desecration of the lands.
As for killing shadowbound fae - killing a fae for any reason is
distasteful in the extreme, and I would hope everyone wishing to help
those fae enslaved by the shadow would use the methods Albion has
provided, if those methods are flawed this can be remedied but try
first. However, death IS preferable to life in slavery and unnatural
bondage to corrupted powers, and if he who slew the fae can purify their
body thereafter, then at least their suffering is eased some small part.
Remember that the spirits of the fae are immortal, they will go on
tending nature for millennia long after your bones are gone to dust.
Slavery of a fae is not slavery of a mortal life that has a time of
ending, the powers that bind them in the shadow will continue without
those that bound them. This cannot be allowed for even a second more
than it must.
As for the Taint, fighting the Taint and keeping it from spreading
further across the land, keeping those who serve it at bay and
containing them is the best you can hope for. The Taint has already
irreparably damaged swaths of what was once pure, but at the least you
can hem it in and isolate it, not allow it to do more damage. This is
how you heal the land for now, by not allowing it to receive more
wounds.
As I have said, I cannot do these things for you, children. You have
chosen a hard and unending path in the protection and service of nature.
But as vital as your role is, as important as it is for you to never
waver in your defence of the wilde and the fae, I encourage you all to
examine your beliefs, your motives and everything you do in your lives.
Only by review and improvement can your souls grow, and this is no path
to be trodden by those whose belief cannot stand a little shaking.
Lisaera, the Silver Goddess
Penned by My hand on the 12th of Vestian, in the year 142 CE.
Our path as essentially ignored, dismissed, and spat on in this event. I'm sorry, it was. Everything we are about was torn to shreds and we are now our own enemy. I've heard people mentioning that the Moondancers no longer have any purpose whatsoever. That is not too far off.
Xenthos2006-04-10 20:27:41
QUOTE(mitbulls @ Apr 10 2006, 02:59 PM) 277909
This can be said, but it's simply not the case. The fae were verbally violent and accused us of enslaving them at the very beginning of the event. While this might not be a problem for the Glomdoring (as many admit to binding the fae in shadows), it's a bigger issue for us to deal with. Also, from the beginning Albion told us that we should continue to trust in Mother Moon and bring the fae to her - we were set up to be in the middle by the development of the event. If we had not brought the fae back, Albion could have become angry with us instead.
Actually, if you read Narsrim's post earlier in this thread... you weren't set up in the middle... by the admins at least. He embellished what Albion said so as to not feel quite as depressed and adrift. Albion told him, "If you have no faith in Mother Moon, do not talk to me." (or something to that end).
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Apr 10 2006, 04:24 PM) 277936
I hope Lisaera doesn't mind me posting this, but even the roleplay of other Gods challenges the notion that they "like" Night.
Our path as essentially ignored, dismissed, and spat on in this event. I'm sorry, it was.
And I see some biased opinion in that post as well, Narsrim. Fae embraced by Mother Night are not "bound for eternity," they return just as often as Fae in Ethereal Serenwilde.
Unknown2006-04-10 20:29:16
QUOTE
Why would the Fae having individual personalities and opinions count as an inconsistency? They're not all one singular entity. It would be like assuming all player races should always be on the same page.
I suppose our problem was simply in our perception of the fae and the way past events have portrayed things. Our RP and history tells us that the Glomdorons enslave the fae, while we rescue them. We've always worked under the assumption that they don't enjoy being enslaved. Now, however, that RP opinion has been overturned.
I suppose, from our standpoint, the effect is much like if someone told Celest that cherubs exercised free choice like mortal races, and some actually liked being taken to Nil. They should not, then, violently oppose the Magnagorans if they came to take these cherubs. Perhaps this is all based on 'mistaken roleplay' (if there can be such a thing), but that's still where we're coming from. It's simply a completely foreign (and possibly even unacceptable) concept to our characters that some fae want to serve Night.
I have to be blatantly honest in saying that this seems to have been an event carried out to favor the Glomdoring. While I did enjoy all of the RP, and I can agree that changes needed to be made in Faethorn, it seems that they will be primarily helped by the changes (i.e. there's no longer anyone to stop them from gathering fae, as there has been in the past), while the Serenwilde will primarily suffer (i.e. those of us, myself included among many other Moondancers, who have built our entire RP around keeping the Glomdorons out must now watch while the fae are taken.) Also, it's difficult for us to keep the fae secure, since they can easily be called out at any time. In the end, we just found out that our life goals could never be accomplished IC.
Anyway, that's a lot of rambling just to explain where we're coming from. Your post makes perfect sense from an OOC or an objective perspective, but from the RP perspective of the Serenwilde, it simply doesn't make sense.
Viravain2006-04-10 20:29:33
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Apr 10 2006, 04:24 PM) 277936
I hope Lisaera doesn't mind me posting this, but even the roleplay of other Gods challenges the notion that they "like" Night.
Our path as essentially ignored, dismissed, and spat on in this event. I'm sorry, it was.
And Estarra has also explained in the past the Elders are not omnipotent, or infallible, or even free from things like personal bias towards that which is their own. I seem to recall you saying things similiar in nature to this in the past as well, when it suited your own arguements, so I'm not sure why you're attempting to argue against it now.
Xenthos2006-04-10 20:31:51
QUOTE(mitbulls @ Apr 10 2006, 04:29 PM) 277938
In the end, we just found out that our life goals could never be accomplished IC.
Actually, as I understand it, you can now sway Faethorn to Moon *very* easily. Capture all the Fae, get the Song sung, capture them again... you'll be making Champions far faster than when they were bound for entire OOC days at a time.
Edit: You can even "trick" Glomdoring into completing the song so that you aren't actually taking the Fae out from safety. How very clever!
Tsuki2006-04-10 20:34:15
Right. I just hope Lisaera isn't feeling as frustrated as the Moondancers are by all this. 
Unknown2006-04-10 20:34:16
QUOTE
Actually, as I understand it, you can now sway Faethorn to Moon *very* easily. Capture all the Fae, get the Song sung, capture them again... you'll be making Champions far faster than when they were bound for entire OOC days at a time.
This would make perfect sense, but only if we were the materialistic empire that we're accused of being. IC, it doesn't make sense for us to call for the song to be sung simply so we can make more champions. It's endangering the fae for our gain.
Narsrim2006-04-10 20:34:33
QUOTE(Viravain @ Apr 10 2006, 04:29 PM) 277939
And Estarra has also explained in the past the Elders are not omnipotent, or infallible, or even free from things like personal bias towards that which is their own. I seem to recall you saying things similiar in natures to this in the past as well, when it suited your own arguements, so I'm not sure why you're attempting to argue against it now.
I'm just saying that I'm a miserable person in a guild of some pretty miserable people because everything we are about is now gone. What exactly are you expecting? We should happy? We should be thankful that we are now as twisted if not more than the Night Coven? We have nothing to go on anymore except some weak, pathetic attempt to lie to ourselves. Remember, we don't have dementia to fall back on.
However, this event basically said everything we should for, cared for, and tried to do was a lie. That sucks. I'm sorry if you can't see it.
Viravain2006-04-10 20:38:18
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Apr 10 2006, 04:34 PM) 277943
I'm just saying that I'm a miserable person in a guild of some pretty miserable people because everything we are about is now gone. What exactly are you expecting? We should happy? We should be thankful that we are now as twisted if not more than the Night Coven? We have nothing to go on anymore except some weak, pathetic attempt to lie to ourselves. Remember, we don't have dementia to fall back on.
However, this event basically said everything we should for, cared for, and tried to do was a lie. That sucks. I'm sorry if you can't see it. In fact, I have this weird gut feeling you are enjoying it.
If I honestly cared what players thought of Me, I might be hurt by your last statement. Especially considering it is the farthest thing from the truth.
Laysus2006-04-10 20:41:40
Prolly kinda hard for someone who's not been in the guild for a sizable length of time to realise quite how much stuff's been messed up by this, Nars :/
Unknown2006-04-10 20:44:33
Anyone think that it might not be over? I dont know if Estarra implied that it was/wasn't, but it seems logical for it not to be. Moondancers, why don't you go see what made the Fae change their oppinions so fast? Why do they now view you as slavers? Obviously, something is corrupting them (or it would seem so from a Moondancer RP).
I hope this isn't a huge incositancy, like it appears to be.
I hope this isn't a huge incositancy, like it appears to be.
Shorlen2006-04-10 20:45:06
QUOTE(Laysus @ Apr 10 2006, 04:41 PM) 277947
Prolly kinda hard for someone who's not been in the guild for a sizable length of time to realise quite how much stuff's been messed up by this, Nars :/
Just do what I did and quit
Makes things so much easier.Hee, I've become as bitter as Gwylifar
Xenthos2006-04-10 20:45:40
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Apr 10 2006, 04:45 PM) 277949
Just do what I did and quit
Makes things so much easier.Hee, I've become as bitter as Gwylifar
He was actually reading this thread earlier.
Laysus2006-04-10 20:45:48
Not like it'd make much difference.
Narsrim2006-04-10 20:55:09
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Apr 10 2006, 04:45 PM) 277949
Just do what I did and quit
Makes things so much easier.Hee, I've become as bitter as Gwylifar
As sad as that sounds, I know 5 moondancers right now who have considered quitting and joining another guild because the moondancers just suck now. In fact, invid, I believe, suggested we shouldn't be part of Serenwilde on CT because we are in fact dirty slavers and that's not something Serenwilde as a whole should tolerate.
Laysus2006-04-10 20:57:56
Just let him say that where Laysus can hear it >.>
Or let Laysus get wind that he said it.
Seriously good chance to raise hell >.>
Or let Laysus get wind that he said it.
Seriously good chance to raise hell >.>
Unknown2006-04-10 20:59:50
Actaully somelse said the same about him...or me or something. Can't remember.
