Kata is now about .5 seconds slower..

206 speed chain is about .3 seconds slower than a 221 as a faeling(2.25 vs 2.55 averaged out).

Result is that no monk with a clue will be anything but faeling because now we're just too slow to make up for the lack of tanking.

Plus it's now easier to heal our ruptures, and we can't give them half as easily since Ninshi was fixed.

Beautiful? :|

I cannot believe they implemented so many downgrades/balances at once instead of doing them slowly to see the effect. This is very disheartening to say the least.

What was the point for downgrading kata balance?

There's no reason for you to be the fastest thing on two legs? Just a guess.

It was downgraded because people wanted to downgrade all faelings in general. But instead it was decided it would be better to just hit monks, since that would only piss off monks not all faelings.

As I see it, Monks were supposed to catagorized as a speed class. Much like a wiccan/cosmic, which I also see as speed classes. Both wiccans and cosmics tend to end up using mugwumps for their speed benifits. While monks, well they tend to use faelings.

So yeah, Xavius. I do see monks supposed to be the fastest warrior-esque class on two legs.

But what worries me is that the change is going to have an adverse effect on non-ninjakari monks alot more. Since they have to rely on such crappy wounding, they need the speed to get those 65 wounds a hit and get them to stack up. Also I think psymet monks are going to suffer as well. Since now they are slower, and they can't dodge, nor can they tank anything since they are so damn squishy. I just don't know how that will end up.

As for me being a ninjakari. I don't mind. I can't mind really. There were some things in the class that could be seen as OP, especially when you combine speed with unable to cure a ninshi'd bodypart. But the unable to cure is still going to stay to a degree. I think you can do somethings while ninshi'd but I think you could do those same things before.

As for the speed issue. The only thing I can think of for ninjakari would be spec basing the illithoid race into something useful that can compensate for the changes. Right now Illithoid are absolute crap for a race, other than looking cool. I mean if monks had an awesome psymet skillset, then maybe being able to suck the life from things to obtain crazy ego would be worth something but with such a low cha to begin with I am not sure what.

But, I think the monk comittee said that all these things were going to happen at once. And so I cannot sit here and really complain much, since I knew about them for the past week or so. That and I am rarely online. I can say I cannot wait to see Emofist, and hope they don't get shafted because of how their skillset will/may be set up. Especially since it centers around a scorpion. But we will see. I love the chain, but if emofist is what I think it will end up being, I will probably suck it up and join them.

Lets see how the changes play out though. Hopefully if they are deemed too much, we can remove them and redo it.

edit- btw I don't play a faeling monk. just so people know, so I won't know the speed I missed out on as a faeling, but I hope I don't suffer too badly as an aslaran, or I will just go tae'dae since they can take a hit or two

You're cute, Ildy-poo.

You must have missed where Vis posted the balance time. You're still faster than the bards, and the bards are still faster than the rest of us. There was no reason for monks attacking that fast ever. It's not like you're spamming dementia and healthleech to try to get a kill off.

Heh, love how these changes come out and already have six of our top people (though Ild is not about much) saying they are leaving.

That really says somethin, huh?

Yes, yes it does...

Yeah I prolly did miss it, my bad. But what if I wanna spam healthleech!! -sniffle- I still think a monk should be way faster than a bard... I think of it like this... if you aren't Joe Satriana or Yngwe Malmsteen (spelled his name wrong I am sure) but those two people are super fast speed guitarists... then I expect you to kick out some slow barry white songs



Well you know why I would say it too though Eth. I can't elaborate much in this thread though. But knowing how they are supposed to work, and the capabilities (again rough idea) that Emofist will entail. Also keeping stealth and well you know.... hell you and I discussed it a long time back too





Nah all it says is that I know more about the skillset or at least the proposed skillset and how effective it could potentially be and will probably be. Especially since Serenwilde is still stuck on the whole choke argument, and if people end up complaining about emofist (which Celest probably won't as much since they don't have die hard glom haters as much as they have die hard Mag haters) they can just say ooooh CHOKE, and the topic will get derailed ^^ ^^

That you need to shush and be satisfied with a job well done? Looks like your eloquent and thought-provoking sigs did the job.

I will say, first, YES there were some issues with Ninjakari and we did need some balancing. BUT, and this is a HUGE f:censor:ing but, alot of the stuff said about us that have lead to all these Downgrades were either from misinformation and/or bad curing. If everything was handled correctly instead of having mass hysteria and people doing their best to nerf us instead of learning to handle us (not saying they don't try), things could have been balanced out in a better manner.

Also, don't mean to call you out directly Acrune, but using you as the example. Many people openly admitted to refusing or not having the time to code in the reflexes for us, which you openly posted about, yet your sig says to FIX NINJAKARI... yet you openly refused to code or prepare fully against them? Sorry, not trying to call you out as a target, but this is how it seems with alot of people and you are the most recent I recall.

The changes all address very specific and known problems.

Problem: There's a rupture instakill and there's nothing that can be done to save your arse from it, even with perfect curing.
Solution: Parry ninshi
Nerf unparryable ninshi

Problem: Monks can't be given scary afflictions (yet have them anyways) because the optimal monk build hits at nearly the same rate as herb balance.
Solution: Slow them down.

If puer and deepheal have your panties in a twist, I just don't know what to tell you.

What's odd is that medicinebag got missed in the list... maybe it was ninja-changed?

More about the people and less about the skills, maybe.



Medicine bag already healed ruptures. Always did.

Hey, that flied as a reason for nerfing bards

Not sure what you mean about not having coded for them. I do have ninjakari triggers, though admittedly not very good ones. Not sure what I've posted about them. I put about the same effort into my Tahtetso triggers though, and have done a lot better against them.

I don't understand why we can't just adapt to monks better. While Ninjakari may or may not be OP (I haven't fought them, just seen logs and read the forums), it still stands to reason that the monks are going to be something that's going to be new and difficult to deal with at first.

But at the same time, does that mean that we have to re-vamp the entire class into nothingness?

When bards were released, they were claimed to be massively OP and some changes were made... but the main emphasis of the class was still kept... and they're still a powerful option for PvP. Monks are getting nerfed into oblivion... and we've lost an idea of what the archetype was supposed to be.

If they were supposed to be speed "warriors" with light wounding... then why are we getting speed nerfed?

I mean, I just see this as people have been playing the game so long that they're not ready to deal with any kind of change whatsoever and want everything to fit in their little mold and stay there. Expand with the game or get out, for crying out loud...

That said, every archetype that Lusty has released since release has needed tweaking... but there's no point freaking out over it. Just suggest things and the envoys are working on it. Lusty staff has already been seen to have a wish that the game is balanced... let them get it worked on, while still keeping the idea behind what the class was supposed to be.

Maybe



1. Excuse me??

2. You sure about medicine bag? It was on the list to be changed. Guess they didn't need to then.

Hmm. Statements that people sought changes to the class without having made triggers for them or having fought them, etc is just incorrect. I cannot speak for others but I know I made sure I coded Ninjakari into my system pretty much the moment the lines were available and then went out and got myself killed by Ninjakari while tweaking the triggers and learning how the offense worked. So I would say that I adjusted to them fine. They are not a very complicated class really. Interesting and unique but not complicated.

I did not say or advocate for an adjustment until I had pretty solid data to support it. Ninshi needed to be changed and the speed needed to be addressed. That ninshi had apparently been bugged for the whole time really didn't help matters. Now it is parryable and I already notice a difference as I was able to parry and dodge several forms in a recent fight with Shamarah. I don't feel this change nerfed the class to the degree some people are saying. He was still able to build up ruptures on me, though the rate was not nearly as insane as it had been. Rather than the fight being a series of unstoppable attacks that led to more unstoppable attacks at a rate impossible to even attempt to keep up with, it was a more balanced give and take with curing actually playing a role in the ability to survive.

What I do find curious is that now that ninshi is no longer the "iwin" button that it was while bugged and harder to stance or parry against, some of the people who claimed they were interested in balance are now planning on moving to the next monk guild apparently in the hopes that they will have something to exploit for awhile. That doesn't really speak of wanting balance. And honestly, given the amount of times these same people have been saying "wait and see" regarding people's concerns regarding their skills, it seems they could perhaps "wait and see" as well in regards to these balancing attempts.

I agree - I had the triggers in my system (and on the forums) as soon as I was able to get them, and the day I arrived back from Israel (hours before the War event) I had fully coded the changes/ruptures into my system.

And see bolded statement that Catarin made for further emphasis.