Xenthos2008-02-05 03:08:18
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 4 2008, 10:07 PM) 484153
How have recent changes changed how monks fight druids?
Standardized Monk speed. One of the primary reasons for it was dealing with Mages/Druids.
Ildaudid2008-02-05 03:11:26
QUOTE(Xavius @ Feb 4 2008, 10:03 PM) 484151
So, um, how do monks fight druids now? I realize that we're a very, very small part of the fighting population, but...I don't see it happening ever.
I think the passive problems are just a bug (if you mean what nejii said) but after they work out the kinks it should be fine (I hope)
Basically the change is allowing a monk more flexibility fighting. Instead of having to make 5 form katas and stick to them, then can change attacks after the 3rd form. Although we all liked being able to change after every attack and ditch the whole programmed kata strings. This is a step in the right direction, and may actually be good for both people who like to control their fights as well as people who just like to use 10 strung forms.
I can now use an attack and if I see it hitting parry, after my third kata in the string I can switch to another area if I chose to. Or if I want to keep hitting that area I can use the mid stream change to "trick" the parry systems into reparrying somewhere else while I switch back and forth to that one area I want. (Which is unlikely since you don't get beheads or anything like that with enough head wounds so to speak)
Xenthos2008-02-05 03:12:22
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Feb 4 2008, 10:11 PM) 484155
I think the passive problems are just a bug (if you mean what nejii said) but after they work out the kinks it should be fine (I hope)
Basically the change is allowing a monk more flexibility fighting. Instead of having to make 5 form katas and stick to them, then can change attacks after the 3rd form. Although we all liked being able to change after every attack and ditch the whole programmed kata strings. This is a step in the right direction, and may actually be good for both people who like to control their fights as well as people who just like to use 10 strung forms.
I can now use an attack and if I see it hitting parry, after my third kata in the string I can switch to another area if I chose to. Or if I want to keep hitting that area I can use the mid stream change to "trick" the parry systems into reparrying somewhere else while I switch back and forth to that one area I want. (Which is unlikely since you don't get beheads or anything like that with enough head wounds so to speak)
Basically the change is allowing a monk more flexibility fighting. Instead of having to make 5 form katas and stick to them, then can change attacks after the 3rd form. Although we all liked being able to change after every attack and ditch the whole programmed kata strings. This is a step in the right direction, and may actually be good for both people who like to control their fights as well as people who just like to use 10 strung forms.
I can now use an attack and if I see it hitting parry, after my third kata in the string I can switch to another area if I chose to. Or if I want to keep hitting that area I can use the mid stream change to "trick" the parry systems into reparrying somewhere else while I switch back and forth to that one area I want. (Which is unlikely since you don't get beheads or anything like that with enough head wounds so to speak)
The comments aren't based on the midstream changes. They're based on the speed changes. No diverting!
Ildaudid2008-02-05 03:14:20
divert @Xenthos
Nah I thought he meant with what nejii said earlier. I didn't know monks had problems fighting druids or something, based with speed.
Nah I thought he meant with what nejii said earlier. I didn't know monks had problems fighting druids or something, based with speed.
Forren2008-02-05 03:19:52
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Feb 4 2008, 10:14 PM) 484157
I didn't know monks had problems fighting druids or something, based with speed.
I'd think they'd have the same problems as fighting mages.. passive proning.
Xavius2008-02-05 03:21:35
If it takes you three forms to get up to speed, you'll never be there. If it comes down to Nejii and Xavius as the last two in an FFA, I'll send a polite tell that I can't outcudgel harmony regeneration while maintaining a saplock, so I'm going to be killing him with willpower attrition, and there's nothing he can do about it, so he should feel free to heartstop when he gets bored.
Xenthos2008-02-05 03:25:19
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Feb 4 2008, 10:14 PM) 484157
divert @Xenthos
Nah I thought he meant with what nejii said earlier. I didn't know monks had problems fighting druids or something, based with speed.
Nah I thought he meant with what nejii said earlier. I didn't know monks had problems fighting druids or something, based with speed.
First of all, this:
QUOTE(Eldanien @ Dec 25 2007, 11:31 AM) 470096
Forms only 'speed up' after the first. First form, long delay, second form.
Second form to third is faster. All other forms from here on are identical in speed, excepting differences in forms that would affect their individual balance times.
You can test this by creating one form and repeating it all eleven times. The only difference in balance times you'll see is first to second. It's about twice as long.
Second form to third is faster. All other forms from here on are identical in speed, excepting differences in forms that would affect their individual balance times.
You can test this by creating one form and repeating it all eleven times. The only difference in balance times you'll see is first to second. It's about twice as long.
(This completely jives with my own testing, by the way, as a Faeling at least. It jives with every other Faeling numbers I saw from all others as well. It's also exactly the same way as it is now: fastest speed on the third form).
QUOTE(Shiri @ Dec 18 2007, 05:12 AM) 467429
Remove the "you gain speed while attacking" mechanic. The only reason this seems to be in place is to let monks resolve grapples, but it has a couple of unfortunate side-effects in that it's awkward to balance around something wherein any hindering will slow your combo back down to a crawl, but very powerful if you are for some reason left unmolested.
QUOTE(Eldanien @ Dec 15 2007, 09:35 AM) 466257
Essentially, monks -have- to dominate the fight or they're hosed. So either monks are whomping whoever they're fighting in what looks (and feels and may quite actually be) unfairly, or the monk gets whomped. I know that's sort of a no-brainer statement, but the way the mechanics of kata works, they rely on their speed to overwhelm. Take that away, and monks wind up doing less damage than warriors -and- be less tanky. There's a threshold where if a monk gets their kata broken often enough, their damage/affliction output drops below warriors. The fine balancing act that has to be made in the mechanics is such that this threshold is pursued by the opponents, while the monk tries to avoid it. If mechanics are changed such that the monk gets hindered too much, they then become less tanky than warriors -and- do less damage/afflicts. If the monk doesn't get hindered, then they do more damage/afflicts than warriors while their frailty becomes a non-issue. Nasty setup.
QUOTE(Lorick @ Dec 15 2007, 01:58 AM) 466173
eh, people can fight monks however they like to in my opinion. I could give better suggestions, but one thing eveyone has access to is that, so I went with it. Key point stands though, you have to hinder the monk about 1/3rd forms to keep them slower than a warrior. Do so, and we really can't do all that much (if you don't factor in the stun). After the fourth and fifth, we speed up, and quickly become faster than a warrior, which at that point offense against us goes out the window (unless it is passive).
Etc.
Shiri2008-02-05 03:46:31
To be fair, the speed differences then were a -lot- more disparate than they are now. It was like a 2-second difference, not a 0.5 second difference.
Xenthos2008-02-05 04:02:47
QUOTE(Shiri @ Feb 4 2008, 10:46 PM) 484167
To be fair, the speed differences then were a -lot- more disparate than they are now. It was like a 2-second difference, not a 0.5 second difference.
And, still to be fair, the fastest speed is still about the fastest speed that it used to be before any of these changes began (far less than a 0.5s difference).
Shiri2008-02-05 04:19:12
Huh? No it isn't. It only speeds up once, making it as fast as it was before monks were slowed down by a flat half-second. Original uninterrupted forms were faster than that.
Xenthos2008-02-05 04:23:48
QUOTE(Shiri @ Feb 4 2008, 11:19 PM) 484173
Huh? No it isn't. It only speeds up once, making it as fast as it was before monks were slowed down by a flat half-second. Original uninterrupted forms were faster than that.
Not that much faster, really. Geb was getting about 2.25 seconds as a Monk, by his numbers (standard race). With your half-second speedup, you should be getting close to about that (at 2.5 or so). Or is it not actually giving you the full half-second?
Shiri2008-02-05 04:28:48
I can't really test it since my arm balances keep spazzing (sigh) and I don't have a timer anyway, but it shouldn't be that fast. They got set at about 3s, then had 0.5s added to make 3.5s.
Gwylifar2008-02-05 16:48:22
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 4 2008, 10:19 PM) 484159
I'd think they'd have the same problems as fighting mages.. passive proning.
Does Acrobatics Balancing cancel that?
Eldanien2008-02-05 16:51:29
Balancing is -almost- immunity to any and all proning effects (save falling over asleep/starving). It has a rather steep mana drain associated with it. All in all, I think Balancing was done right - something you don't want to have to use, but can and should when facing certain tactics/classes. Think Metawake.
edit: This, of course, is an Acrobatics-only solution. But Psymets have alternative immunities and near-immunities (bleeding, broken limbs). I'm liking how the two are strong against different sets of opponents. My only gripe with them now (tertiaries) are the unused or unusable skills, but that exists with most skillsets.
edit: This, of course, is an Acrobatics-only solution. But Psymets have alternative immunities and near-immunities (bleeding, broken limbs). I'm liking how the two are strong against different sets of opponents. My only gripe with them now (tertiaries) are the unused or unusable skills, but that exists with most skillsets.
Shamarah2008-02-05 22:22:45
The proning isn't the problem, the problem is treelife/treebane.
Arel2008-02-06 01:00:23
ANNOUNCE NEWS #1016
Date: 2/6/2008 at 0:00
From: Estarra, the Eternal
To : Everyone
Subj: Illusions
There has been a small update to improved illusions. If you are an
illusionist, please see AB ILLUSIONS IMPROVED.
Penned by My hand on the 21st of Klangiary, in the year 197 CE.
Date: 2/6/2008 at 0:00
From: Estarra, the Eternal
To : Everyone
Subj: Illusions
There has been a small update to improved illusions. If you are an
illusionist, please see AB ILLUSIONS IMPROVED.
Penned by My hand on the 21st of Klangiary, in the year 197 CE.
Forren2008-02-06 02:21:27
QUOTE(Arel @ Feb 5 2008, 08:00 PM) 484377
ANNOUNCE NEWS #1016
Date: 2/6/2008 at 0:00
From: Estarra, the Eternal
To : Everyone
Subj: Illusions
There has been a small update to improved illusions. If you are an
illusionist, please see AB ILLUSIONS IMPROVED.
Penned by My hand on the 21st of Klangiary, in the year 197 CE.
Date: 2/6/2008 at 0:00
From: Estarra, the Eternal
To : Everyone
Subj: Illusions
There has been a small update to improved illusions. If you are an
illusionist, please see AB ILLUSIONS IMPROVED.
Penned by My hand on the 21st of Klangiary, in the year 197 CE.
ILLUSIONS - IMPROVED
Syntax: WEAVE IMPROVED
Power: 0 (for 1 line illusion)
2 (Any, for 2 line illusion)
This ability lets you set off coloured, delayed illusions. The colors
available to you can be seen at the bottom of CONFIG COLOUR. The cost in
mana is one mana for each character in the illusion. (To add a new line
to your illusion use \\nl)
As an option, you can FOCUS to concentrate on an illusion so you will not see the illusion unfold. This costs slightly more willpower.
Malicia2008-02-06 02:21:58
Hmmmm.
Ildaudid2008-02-06 02:27:41
QUOTE(Forren @ Feb 5 2008, 09:21 PM) 484384
ILLUSIONS - IMPROVED
Syntax: WEAVE IMPROVED
Power: 0 (for 1 line illusion)
2 (Any, for 2 line illusion)
This ability lets you set off coloured, delayed illusions. The colors
available to you can be seen at the bottom of CONFIG COLOUR. The cost in
mana is one mana for each character in the illusion. (To add a new line
to your illusion use \\nl)
As an option, you can FOCUS to concentrate on an illusion so you will not see the illusion unfold. This costs slightly more willpower.
Syntax: WEAVE IMPROVED
Power: 0 (for 1 line illusion)
2 (Any, for 2 line illusion)
This ability lets you set off coloured, delayed illusions. The colors
available to you can be seen at the bottom of CONFIG COLOUR. The cost in
mana is one mana for each character in the illusion. (To add a new line
to your illusion use \\nl)
As an option, you can FOCUS to concentrate on an illusion so you will not see the illusion unfold. This costs slightly more willpower.
Forren you are one of the better mage illusionists. Probably one of the best when it comes to illusions. Can you explain what this change did, and if it actually helpful for mage illusionists?
Forren2008-02-06 02:31:43
QUOTE(Ildaudid @ Feb 5 2008, 09:27 PM) 484386
Forren you are one of the better mage illusionists. Probably one of the best when it comes to illusions. Can you explain what this change did, and if it actually helpful for mage illusionists?
Improved illusions showing to the caster was a bug. This looks like a bugfix, plus the ability to toggle displaying to the mage on/off. The chance to see your own illusion will help for testing/rp.
