ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2008-03-05 01:19:22
Bards do need some lower power costs on SOME skills.

Please no instant octave.
Nezha2008-03-05 01:30:15
Go carameshian.. submit to your envoy please...

And yeah, lets lower the power costs.. even just making flare 1p will be a big help
Acrune2008-03-05 01:32:18
QUOTE(carameshian @ Mar 4 2008, 07:58 PM) 491219
I don't want to be an envoy. I just want to spew my comments on power. I want to show how everything's been systematically downgraded, to the extent that power costs no longer reflect actual "power" of an ability.

These are our bard abilities (ignoring the specialization of music and assuming glamours) that take power and their associated power cost. The following are abilities one might use in combat.

maze (10) - has been somewhat downgraded
tripleflash (10) - downgraded to 50% of its old usefulness just recently
illusoryself (5) - downgraded since implementation
maelstrom (5) - downgraded since implementation
octave (3) - has its own problems irrelevant to this discussion
perfectfifth (3) - upgraded since implementation (yay)
colorspray (3) - downgraded since implementation, and only applies in group combat
blankchord (4) - only applies in group combat, and only works on deaf enemies
rainbowpattern (2) - downgraded since implementation
flare (2) and fascinate (2) - was originally one skill that cost 2 power
discordantchord (variable) - requires octave to work
music-targetted power ability (3 in my case)
powerspikes affliction (2 power)

The following are our abilities that require no power to use:
blanknote (which you can only do if enemy is deaf)
hypnotic pattern (which you only do once per enemy)
music afflictions aside from powerspikes (which are immediately cured without octave)
colorburst (which has been downgraded)
deadlypattern
acrobatics attacks (forwardflip, backflip, jumpkick)

My point is the following. All the tweaks to the bard class since glamours was released has made fighting effectively under power constraints unreasonable. Most of our skills that require NO power to use have been downgraded or require certain conditions be met (like octave or they have to be deaf). Perfectfifth + octave + fascinate + flare is 10 power. Afterwards, we cannot re-hinder effectively, since flare+fascinate takes 4 itself. Rainbowpattern is less effective, but it still costs two power. Mazing or tripleflashing renders a bard pretty ineffective for a good deal of time. The power cost of our skills no longer reflect their actual usefulness in combat.

My suggestion is one of the following. Either give bards a skill that SPEEDS up power transfer from reserves, or lower some of the power costs. As a side note, also, make octave instantaneous or allow a bard to reenter a room within a certain window to prevent octave from falling (it's 3 power)


You're completely correct. However, people are moronically biased against bards. Any upgrade is immediately shot down, and people still cry for nerfs. For example, from this month's envoy report:

QUOTE
Idea:
Skill Rainbowpattern
Problem: Since the new changes, the 2p is too heavy. Bards are already heaved down with power costing attacks and with the recent changes, a decrease in power would be great.
Solution: I'd honestly like to see that it no longer cost any power, but would accept 1p.

Comments (names left out):

Bards are fine, despite the changes. 2p is -not- too heavy. If you are complaining about being too 'power heavy' as a class, play Celestine/Nihilist/Moondancer.

Having played a Moondancer before, I've found that the power cost to be about the same except for the times when I ended up using the power. As a Moondancer, the initial deffing up and the first rounds of doublewhammies drained me pretty quickly in comparison to bards who have to perpetually keep using 2p throughout the fight. It might sound biased, but I support any little power tweak that bards can get, even if it's just moving the 2p costs to just 1p.

(me) I use WAY more power as a Cantor then as a Celestine. Way, way, way more power.

Rainbow pattern is fine at a 2 power cost. It is not like the skill can be easily removed by anyone, besides Illusionists.

(me) I just tested it, it does 1 affliction and 500 damage (out of 5600) every 15 seconds while I'm not blind, and it fires 5 times. Rather crappy.

I don't think that's that crappy. I think 2p is appropriate for a skill that works that way.


Those are all different people, except the two that are mine. Its infuriating because bards really are a crummy class at the moment, and nearly anything resembling an upgrade gets shot down, unless its either a bug fix or a likely oversight (such as the perfect fifth changes last time). Can't wait until I can guide up enough credits to switch guilds.
Xavius2008-03-05 01:32:32
A lower power cost on flare and maybe a couple other things is entirely reasonable, but do keep in mind that the entire point of power is not being able to do everything.
carameshian2008-03-05 01:36:19
The point of power is indeed so you can't do everything, but I listed the things you CAN do without power. Read that list and tell me if you expect anyone to do anything in a fight with those as your bread and butter.
Acrune2008-03-05 01:36:41
QUOTE(Xavius @ Mar 4 2008, 08:32 PM) 491232
but do keep in mind that the entire point of power is not being able to do everything.


And that was fine back when the skills were good tongue.gif
Zacc2008-03-05 01:38:24
Oh how I dislike scissorkick, gusting, and any other movement ability while I have an octave up. Wish I could perfectfifth myself or have some sort of defense in Music that prevents movement of the bard.

Music afflictions are laughable if the target knows what they're doing. Though, I'd like to see what would happen if I could get egovice to stick on someone forcefielded and being battered during a group fight (might as well toss in some debating too).

I'm curious about blankchording and captivated targets. Is the AB right about it being difficult to break captivation with a blankchord? I just tried to blankchord two people I captivated and it didn't work (no, they weren't allies when I blankchorded- they were enemies). So, it seems a 0p ability can make a 4p ability useless? I hope I'm wrong about that and we don't have to individually break each captivation.

Starhymn 3p ability- upgrade please.
Nezha2008-03-05 01:47:42
QUOTE
perpetually keep using 2p throughout the fight.


whoever this is.. know little about bard combat.. we CANT perpetually use 2p.. 2p for what?

Most of the glamour skill needs afterimage to be active for it to work.. and flare only lasts so long.. meaning you have to re-flare again for things like transfix to work decently..

Mostly it becomes a choice between a skill like maesltrom or going for transfix/perfectfith.. or octave..

and most bards get drained to 0 at the first 20-30sec of a fight.. heck, if the opponent is determined enough to run away.. you can waste 50p easy and not go anywhere..

Initial deffing should not to be included in the discussion of actual power usage during comabt conditions I think. the power cost at defup is irrelevant as you can wait until it power is full again. Whereas during combat you do not have that luxury..

This is one of the real reason why I was attracted to tarot in the first place.. the power cost is just too high sometimes..
Xenthos2008-03-05 01:52:16
QUOTE(nezha @ Mar 4 2008, 08:47 PM) 491242
whoever this is.. know little about bard combat.. we CANT perpetually use 2p.. 2p for what?

Most of the glamour skill needs afterimage to be active for it to work.. and flare only lasts so long.. meaning you have to re-flare again for things like transfix to work decently..

Mostly it becomes a choice between a skill like maesltrom or going for transfix/perfectfith.. or octave..

and most bards get drained to 0 at the first 20-30sec of a fight.. heck, if the opponent is determined enough to run away.. you can waste 50p easy and not go anywhere..

Initial deffing should not to be included in the discussion of actual power usage during comabt conditions I think. the power cost at defup is irrelevant as you can wait until it power is full again. Whereas during combat you do not have that luxury..

This is one of the real reason why I was attracted to tarot in the first place.. the power cost is just too high sometimes..

So, whoever that person was supported lowering the power cost... and you're tearing their supporting argument up. Poor bard-envoy. sad.gif

By the way, "perpetually" in that sense means "we have to keep using a 2p ability all the time in order to keep up our offense."

(PS: Did you not actually read that paragraph, but just saw the sentence and decided to rant about it?)
Nezha2008-03-05 01:57:05
oopss my bad.. sorry.. kekeke laugh.gif

Unknown2008-03-05 13:04:19
QUOTE(carameshian @ Mar 4 2008, 08:36 PM) 491236
The point of power is indeed so you can't do everything, but I listed the things you CAN do without power. Read that list and tell me if you expect anyone to do anything in a fight with those as your bread and butter.


I think you've misunderstood Xavius. He's saying that you have to choose a subset of your power abilities and use them, rather than using every single power ability you have in every single fight. Being able to do a limited something (i.e., the intent of the power system) is very different from not being able to do anything at all.

Now, I may actually agree that one or two of those abilities should have the power cost lowered, but most of the abilities were "nerfed" to bring more balance to the archetype that was utterly destroying people with afflictions and even damage.
Saran2008-03-06 01:16:35
I'm happy for their costs to be lowered if fury doesn't remove all demesne effects.

Though I do remember when it destroyed your cudgel/staff too
Myndaen2008-03-13 02:54:16
ANNOUNCE NEWS #1037
Date: 3/13/2008 at 2:50
From: Morgfyre, the Legion
To : Everyone
Subj: Aetherspace Updates
- The Parallax Aether Arena has been released!
--- Type PARALLAX to see the basic syntaxes.
--- Ships may PARALLAX CHALLENGE to challenge another ship to a
duel
--- There are Aether Dogfights, which are similar to standard
Free-For-Alls
--- There may be more games forthcoming!
- New skill in Aethercraft: GLIDE
- New ship artifact: Aether Anchor
- An anchor will allow a ship to, once per Lusternian day, create a
temporary dock.
- You will no longer see ship movement messages if your ship is
considered to be in-motion. After a period of 5 seconds with no
movement, a ship will return to rest.
- GRID REPAIR MODULE can be used with no specified module, and will
intelligently attempt to heal the most damaged module.
- GRID JOIN and GRID REMOVE can be used while docked.
- GRID SCAN will also return the short names of the ships it finds.
- SHIP LOOK INFO will now work.
- Fusion is now a delayed task, and:
... It will be interrupted if your ship moves or takes damage.
... It will cancel your ship's gliding to prevent accidental
interruption.
- Immersion's power cost has been reduced by half.
- Combateer Shock will now work properly. Previously it was just
knocking a module off balance.
- There will now be more variety of beasts in Aetherspace, some harder
than before. This also means that there is more XP to be gained from
hunting these harder beasts!
- The gold reward for selling auronispheres at the Facility has
increased.
- Clarification: It is believed by some players that an Empath's
Resonance power is just a lesser version of Spiral. However, Resonance
prevents aetherbeasts from tracking to you, whereas Spiral does not. So
the difference is: spiral defends from other ships, resonance defends
from beasts.
- Various typos also fixed, some system updating may be required.
---------------------------------
The following are unrelated bugfixes:
- Inscribing multiple runes and tarot cards at once works once more
- A less confusing message for using the wrong channel with PSI
- You are no longer able to inquisition someone who is already under an
inquisition
- There was a bug where a person's opened aura from Heretic was carring
over and allowing them to be instantly inquisitioned when Infideled. No
longer!
- Sleeping players who awaken due to vomiting will now be aware of this
fact
- You will no longer be able to transverse and doubly link power from
your nexus
- Evade (Stealth) is no longer stopped by walls
- Nervous (Healing) now cures "paralyzed on the lower body."
- Entourages will no longer be moveable off balance.
- Guild tutors will properly call for help when attacked
- The faerie godmother's homicidal rampages have been quelled
- A keg with less than 50 sips left won't be the one you fill from.
- Psionics AlterAura can remove Constitution.
- Powerspikes will kick in when power is drained, not when it's being
checked
- You won't get a generic message about not wielding a weapon, when the
real culprit is hemiplegy
- You can check SCORE while DOMOTH DESCEND/ASCENDing
- Ditto for meditating upon ascendance.
- You can't waylay (in Stealth) while graced.
- Female mounts bucking off repugnant riders will use female pronouns.
- Text you say on FT will show capitalized to you as well as everyone
else
- OWHO will say "in your Circle (and below)"
- OTO and OTI should be limited as OT is by planar distances.
- Spiritbond river should apply regen in the same environments in which
you can bond it
- Blanknote won't penetrate prismatic barrier.
- If you're asleep when the teleport goes through, it won't finish.
- Music Roulade used to be flat 15%, now it depends on instrument
aptitude
- WildArrane AncestralWatch will be triggered more regularly now
- Wrack can't be done while prone.
- You can no longer ASCEND from the Domoth to the Havens.
- Triumphing in the combat rankings will cause a facebook blessing.
- Food eaten isn't used up in the arena.
Enjoy!

Karnagan2008-03-13 02:55:36
Woot!

Our dreams come true, and an Aethership arena is provided!

Let's do some practicing. smile.gif
Jigan2008-03-13 02:56:06
- Triumphing in the combat rankings will cause a facebook blessing.

What would that be?

dazed.gif
Everiine2008-03-13 02:57:24
QUOTE
- The faerie godmother's homicidal rampages have been quelled

blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif
Shiri2008-03-13 03:02:23
Major ehhhhhhhhhh.

No fusion for anyone? Not even a slipstream ability to autopilot people to bubbles to make up for the fact only commanders can make practical use of aetherspace? No ANYTHING? Glide doesn't cut it. This was the major problem with aetherspace to begin with and it still exists. Either everyone should have easy access or no one should - it shouldn't require transing one of three mutually exclusive specs.

EDIT: No spiral fix either. Lame.
Myndaen2008-03-13 03:08:52
QUOTE(Shiri @ Mar 12 2008, 10:02 PM) 493316
Major ehhhhhhhhhh.

No fusion for anyone? Not even a slipstream ability to autopilot people to bubbles to make up for the fact only commanders can make practical use of aetherspace? No ANYTHING? Glide doesn't cut it. This was the major problem with aetherspace to begin with and it still exists. Either everyone should have easy access or no one should - it shouldn't require transing one of three mutually exclusive specs.


I don't agree. I think fusion should be EXTREMELY limited. I think aetherspace should be cut in half at least, though, to compensate. I think it's stupid to have such a big area, with expensive ships that can be used to fight each other, and yet the likelihood of finding another ship outside of pre-planned times (ie nexus battles) is extremely small.

Giving everyone flashpoints would lower that likelihood incredibly.
Shiri2008-03-13 03:10:07
Fine, then remove it from commander and watch actual aetherspace usage plummet. But don't have only ONE spec able to access it.
Catarin2008-03-13 03:25:34
QUOTE(Shiri @ Mar 12 2008, 09:10 PM) 493319
Fine, then remove it from commander and watch actual aetherspace usage plummet. But don't have only ONE spec able to access it.


Have you tried glide? It is pretty handy.

Though it would be nice to be able to record a route like "glide w 10 clidks, glide s 200 clicks" etc.