ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Malarious2008-06-07 00:40:12
QUOTE(Sojiro @ Jun 6 2008, 08:06 PM) 518686
Inquisition flip-out goes here.

Crucify flip-out goes here.

Yay Collapsenerve.

Inqui:
Even Geb said this wasnt needed, Inqui is USUALLY used by base races and has been for some time. This was unneeded

Crucify:
This had no oppositin, we didnt ask to make it super fast, just not to be so bloody slow.

Collapsenerve:
A jab to arms, woooo.
Chade2008-06-07 00:53:39
QUOTE


A pink glow surrounds a celestial archangel, who reaches forth with outstretched
arms and hugs you in a loving embrace.
-

You have recovered balance on your right arm.
-

-

Your left arm is off balance.
-

You have recovered balance on your left arm.
-

You remove 1 kombu, bringing the total in the Rift to 23.
-

CURED vapors
-

-

Your mind is able to focus once again.
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Your left arm is off balance.
-

You may drink another purgative or curing potion.
-

You have recovered balance on your right arm.
-

-

Your left arm is off balance.
-

You have recovered balance on your left arm.
Your senses return to you as the blackout ends.
4888h, 2871m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12071w elx-


: Inquisition!
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12071w elx-

You may eat or smoke another herb.
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elx-


: Inquisition!
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elx-

You have recovered balance on your right arm.
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4813h, 2792m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4738h, 2713m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4738h, 2713m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4738h, 2713m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4738h, 2778m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-


: Inquisition!
4738h, 2778m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-

You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
4738h, 2778m, 3990e, 1p, 21608en, 12085w elrx-

The Handmaiden of Shakiniel raises her shield, which shoots a ball of crackling
blue lightning at you.
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
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You bleed 5 health.
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(25 - southeast)

: Inquisition!
-

Your senses return to you as the blackout ends.
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrx-

A celestial archangel)
: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4433h, 2462m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4358h, 2383m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4358h, 2383m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4358h, 2383m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12099w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4283h, 2304m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4283h, 2304m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-

You suddenly perceive the vague outline of an aura of rebounding around Talkan.
REBOUNDING-UP-RAZE-RAZE-IDIOT-RAZE-RAZE-IDIOT-RAZE-RAZE-IDIOT-RAZE
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4208h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-

You bleed 4 health.
4204h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-


: Inquisition!
4204h, 2225m, 3990e, 1p, 20490en, 12113w elrxp-

The Handmaiden of Shakiniel raises her shield, which shoots a ball of crackling
blue lightning at you.
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-


: Inquisition!
-

You are dead and cannot do that.


New inquisition time is possibly a little long?

No Inquisition before the first Vapours seen here, so obviously afflicted with it then and I don't come out of it until after Soulless had killed me, was constantly trying to move too right up until I died.
Ceren2008-06-07 01:10:45
That's what mugwump inquisition was like before the racial change. Now everyone can do it!
Unknown2008-06-07 01:11:48
CHANGE: Allow drawing 10 hexes in a room.
FEEDBACK: Overpowered, especially in choke.


Admin rejected change for more hexes in a room however they increased inquisition stun.

wtf.gif
Shiri2008-06-07 01:12:25
QUOTE(Thoros LaSaet @ Jun 7 2008, 02:11 AM) 518698
CHANGE: Allow drawing 10 hexes in a room.
FEEDBACK: Overpowered, especially in choke.


SOLUTION: FIX CHOKE.
Unknown2008-06-07 01:13:43
QUOTE(Shiri @ Jun 7 2008, 01:12 AM) 518699
SOLUTION: FIX CHOKE.


Seriously, it doesn't take a genious...

Also they could also just make it so when choke is activated in a room, all drawn hexes die, and hexes that are drawn in the room while choke is up have only like a 10 second lifespan.
Ethelon2008-06-07 01:17:19
I honestly don't understand why the divine felt they needed to make one of the strongest skills in the game, even more powerful. As far as I knew, most of the envoys, aside from Talkan, were against this, yet the comments and rationality of it all was just ignored.
Aramel2008-06-07 01:28:40
Skipping the skill-related rants, the family system is really groan-worthy.

Make it so you can adopt married/bloodbonded people please!
Estarra2008-06-07 01:31:48
If you're talking about the crucify/inquisition changes, we had concerns about the suggestion changes. Indeed, we have explicit notations to pull these changes immediately if they prove too easy to pull off.

Regarding hexes, choke wasn't the only consideration.

(BTW, we've given the envoys more than one opportunity to "fix" choke but thus far the suggestions haven't passed muster.)
Chade2008-06-07 01:39:06
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 7 2008, 02:31 AM) 518704
If you're talking about the crucify/inquisition changes, we had concerns about the suggestion changes. Indeed, we have explicit notations to pull these changes immediately if they prove too easy to pull off.

Regarding hexes, choke wasn't the only consideration.

(BTW, we've given the envoys more than one opportunity to "fix" choke but thus far the suggestions haven't passed muster.)


Inqui is a bit much I believe, crucify/sacrifice probably still won't be used as the equilibrium time is still 5 seconds to a 4 second writhe and we need to break all 4 limbs to pull it off - don't think I've ever seen it done to anyone except when four people stun/prone then trample, crucify and sacrifice all in conjunction. It's a really cool skill though just near impossible to pull off. Oh and I think we'd happily lose the quicker crucify if that's what it took for inquisition to be changed back to normal - think every necromancer would agree - if not feel free to correct me.

PS I can't go see Hagbard Celine anymore sad.gif
Estarra2008-06-07 01:46:21
QUOTE(Chade @ Jun 6 2008, 06:39 PM) 518705
Inqui is a bit much I believe, crucify/sacrifice probably still won't be used as the equilibrium time is still 5 seconds to a 4 second writhe and we need to break all 4 limbs to pull it off - don't think I've ever seen it done to anyone except when four people stun/prone then trample, crucify and sacrifice all in conjunction. It's a really cool skill though just near impossible to pull off. Oh and I think we'd happily lose the quicker crucify if that's what it took for inquisition to be changed back to normal - think every necromancer would agree - if not feel free to correct me.


Like inquisition, crucify takes timing which admittedly is a challenge, but to say it is "impossible" to pull off is absurd. We note how extremely effective Lycos was with crucify.
Chade2008-06-07 01:57:23
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 7 2008, 02:46 AM) 518708
Like inquisition, crucify takes timing which admittedly is a challenge, but to say it is "impossible" to pull off is absurd. We note how extremely effective Lycos was with crucify.


Impossible is an overstatement but that wasn't what I inteded - just poor expression and I did tag a nearly onto the front of it smile.gif however I don't believe highly unlikely when dealing with anyone with a semi-decent system is an overstatement - I don't know any Nihilist who would go for a mid-tier combatant (which is what I'd class myself as, not good but not utter crap) by themselves with crucify/sacrifice as it's extremely difficult to get someone into a position to do it and keep them there.

I've certainly never felt able to use it, but then I'm a knight and I have much more effective and easier to use methods of killing people - plus I haven't been a Nihilist since before Glomdoring was a commune so in all honesty I suppose I'm in no position to talk about the viability of it for them. However it's certainly not something which is used often and I'd wager that inquisition is used a hell of a lot more than sacrifice. Don't remember the last time I saw a deathsight message from sacrifice will have to get someone to pull it off as it's rather a good one.
Shamarah2008-06-07 01:58:30
I'm confused - how did racial changes justify any of those changes apart from the sixthsense one?
Estarra2008-06-07 02:10:32
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 6 2008, 06:58 PM) 518713
I'm confused - how did racial changes justify any of those changes apart from the sixthsense one?


Ask your envoys!

(It allegedly had something to do with the weakening of racial equilibrium balance.)
Unknown2008-06-07 02:12:51
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2008, 06:46 PM) 518708
Like inquisition, crucify takes timing which admittedly is a challenge, but to say it is "impossible" to pull off is absurd. We note how extremely effective Lycos was with crucify.


In the modern combat landscape no one with a clue will die to sacrifice. It's not impossible, just exceedingly unlikely against a halfway competent combatant.

Inquisition can, and does, happen. The only way to avoid it is to flee the room, which kills your offense. This can be compared to sacrifice which you simply cure through and keep fighting in.

I won't say that sacrifice is terrible (though I'd be hard pressed to disagree with anyone who asserted such), but I will say that inquisition was strong and didn't need to be made stronger. They're totally different levels of utility on a solo play field (which is ostensibly what all balance changes are made with an eye towards)
Ethelon2008-06-07 02:13:10
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2008, 09:46 PM) 518708
Like inquisition, crucify takes timing which admittedly is a challenge, but to say it is "impossible" to pull off is absurd. We note how extremely effective Lycos was with crucify.


Inquisition does not require timing like Sacrifice does. Inqui only requires you to wait a few seconds till the next window opens for the next stage. With the way writhing has been leveled, if I don't immediately run when hit with heretic and allow them to recover, I will be webbed and before I writhe infidel will hit me. It is not hard at all to pull off inquisition if you can just slightly hold your target down. Hell, I've been inquisitioned by Narsrim just from failing to leave a carcered room repeatedly.
Malarious2008-06-07 02:13:56
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jun 6 2008, 09:58 PM) 518713
I'm confused - how did racial changes justify any of those changes apart from the sixthsense one?


Eq time.

And
@Estarra:

No its not impossible. It generally takes ectoplasm, scabies, maybe epilepsy, and usually aeon to prevent 'luck'. That is alot to set up and if you dont stick aeon you are pretty much assured to never pull it solo. In groups its far far easier.

Inqui has always been used as a base race, it does afflictions and damage even without progressing it.. the change was unneeded as almost every single envoy had stated. We dont need to quicken a skill that was already used mostly by base speed. :/

NOTE: Sacrifices done on have been performed only by.. Lyco, Thoros, Myself, and Shamarah recently. Other than that it isnt a kill you see pulled really.
Shiri2008-06-07 02:14:34
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 7 2008, 03:10 AM) 518716
Ask your envoys!

(It allegedly had something to do with the weakening of racial equilibrium balance.)


Shamarah's implying that they were just sneaky attempts to get upgrades without using normal slots on them for a spurious reason. A bunch of classes "suffered" by mugwump not being the nut high OP anymore. Bards actually legitimately lost out because they couldn't get most of their glamours-skills off as a non-mugwump though (although come to think of it that wasn't directly related either...but they see mugwump as less viable now.) Nihilists and Celestines, not so much.

The toad changes similarly had nothing at all to do with it and were just (deserved) changes to toadcurse for completely unrelated reasons.

EDIT: And while the inqui change might have been unneeded, it doesn't actually "speed it up" or help you catch someone in it - once they're caught in it they're considered to have lost already. So this was basically a bard fix and a random Nihilist upgrade, and then a bunch of tangential other upgrades.
Shamarah2008-06-07 02:20:26
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2008, 10:10 PM) 518716
(It allegedly had something to do with the weakening of racial equilibrium balance.)


So why wasn't cosmicfire speeded up? And waning? And staff? And succumb? And lash? And moonburst? And ectoplasm? And web? And sap? And octave? And amissio?

Do you get my point?
Xenthos2008-06-07 02:22:16
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2008, 10:10 PM) 518716
Ask your envoys!

(It allegedly had something to do with the weakening of racial equilibrium balance.)

Keep in mind that, without vetoes, things were put into the report without any backing whatsoever (see: Inquisition change). The majority of the things put forward were exactly as Shiri stated above. We tried to make comments to point out that there really wasn't any backing for some of these ideas, but I don't think it was quite clear enough.

An example of a truly legitimate issue was the sixth-sense one, because that was an issue before the racial rebalancing. Mugwumps were able to get around it, but the other races were screwed. That was the sort of thing that this special report was *supposed* to address, IMO. Unfortunately, a lot of the others really were "Well, we can do this with normal races just fine, but since it's not as powerful as it was as Mugwump, let's just upgrade it anyways!"