ENVOY REPORTS

by Ashteru

Back to Common Grounds.

Celina2009-01-12 01:57:56
Hooray Carillonknell.

Testing with rising number of afflictions:

Me: 19 int

Damage Type: Magical
Damage Source: Magical

vs Thoros-lvl 2 magic resistance+draconis:

90 (0 affs)
208
364
522
573
695

vs Lanfayr-lvl 2 magic weakness+proofed greatrobes:

219 (0 affs)
322
505
709
910
1080


So if they don't have a system or don't cure, we'll be doing decent damage! Woo! (still less than the SS)
Narsrim2009-01-12 09:17:26
Would you mind posting a log of how much damage it does against a person with no resistances (including racial and proofs and Magic skillset) with 19 intelligence? I'll see if I can get some people together to likewise do the same for a 19 intelligence Spiritsinger damage song using the same criteria.
Zacc2009-01-12 09:21:52
Toss in some Cantor stuff too. You know how your passives are so OP.
Xiel2009-02-04 06:49:49
CODE
ANNOUNCE NEWS #1271
Date: 2/4/2009 at 6:31
From: Charune, the Horned One
To  : Everyone
Subj: Bug Fixes

o A few abilities were overlooked when racial balance and equilibrium
bonuses and penalties were reduced. As a result, the effects given by
shrine celerity, swiftstripes, lightningstripes, and taintedlove have
been reduced to their proper equivalents.

o Gods are now able to properly grant the Warlord power to order members
to let them declare order wars on behalf of the god.

o Splendour is now also usable as a keyword along with Splendor for the
TAILORING verb.

o You can add an optional g or s to the end of REPORT LIST
to differentiate between skillset and guild in
the case of the monk guilds.

o Liveforest will not affect players who are out of phase or in similar
conditions.

o Colourburst, Colourspray, and Colourmaelstrom (Glamours) will not
cause afflictions after death if you die to it.

o You can no longer dismiss a beast while still mounted on it.

o The "unleash" verb for mages and druids' transcendent ability will
keep looking for the right staff if you have more than one.

o Fixed a bug where throwing objects like snowballs would not release
your hands from wielding things.

o Fixed a bug where things thrown would seem to come from the wrong
direction.

o Tumbles and other delayed moves are now stopped by being put into
suspended animation, liquid form, etc.

o MAP will correctly reflect tapestries, illusory walls, and bubble
pipes.

o Perfect Fifth will prevent escape using Shadowdance Flight, Music
Majorsixth, and Nature Flow.

o Phantasms Phantomsphere should cure only outside the caster's demesne
now.

o You can no longer use domination skills to affect SETALIAS aliases and
SETTARGET variables.

o When you try to influence fae, Dandelion's puffs won't get in the way.

o Dreambodies can use the QWHO and BWHO verbs.

o Crowform won't cost mana, willpower, or power if used while it's
already up.

o Demigods should gain grace when they phoenix as they would coming back
other ways.

o Those disguised as statues or trees can no longer gain experience if
grouped with others who are bashing.

o You can no longer headslam people while crucified or impaled on
antlers.

o You can now ASK ASCENDANCE and get an accurate response.

o Fixed another problem with fizzling paintings.

o Champion Rescue should correctly honor elevations.

o Mere mortals can no longer (temporarily) ascend to the havens.

o ISSUES will show an error message instead of a blank prompt if you
have no pending issues.

o Fixed a large number of grammar, spelling, and diction errors.

o Arts Sketches have been revamped in several ways that should fix many
of the problems where statues, paintings, and figurines made from
sketches would not get correct descriptions. As a result:

----o The syntax to paint from sketches is now PAINT FROM SKETCH
.

----o The syntax to sculpt from sketches is now SCULPT STATUE|FIGURINE
OF SKETCH .

----o If you need multiple sketches, they must be identical. Sketches of
different-colored inferno beetles, or of Nejii in different genders,
won't work.

----o Sketches will now decay even in stockrooms, if they don't have
MasterSketch Seals.

----o Paintings, statues, and figurines made from sketches with Master
Sketch Seals will now last 50% longer.

----o Using old sketches should now correctly show the subject as they
were when the sketch was made, not as the subject is at the time the artwork
is made.

----o Art made from sketches should never come up with a generic
description anymore.

Enjoy!


cheer.gif Big, big raves for Arts hopefully being less wonky now. wub.gif
Celina2009-02-04 07:20:03
Seriously, taintedlove? The one saving grace of the Cacophony? The single skill in Necroscream that kept it from total crap status? Yes, I get it's a "bug" but this blows.

Yes, I know. Consult your envoy. My envoy isn't around and he's envoying arbitrary skills with no cohesive plan to improve the Cacophony so it isn't a pile of suck.

Necroscream. Report. Please. I'll I'm asking for is for the same chance Spiritsingers got. That's all I want. The opportunity for a massive overhaul so we can actual compete in the PK arena. Equal treatment, please.

So glad we're on round 3 with monks though. Time well spent.
Charune2009-02-04 07:26:56
QUOTE (Celina @ Feb 4 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seriously, taintedlove? The one saving grace of the Cacophony? The single skill in Necroscream that kept it from total crap status? Yes, I get it's a "bug" but this blows.

It was giving the equivalent of a ... level 4 eq/balance penalty.

QUOTE (Celina @ Feb 4 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, I know. Consult your envoy. My envoy isn't around and he's envoying arbitrary skills with no cohesive plan to improve the Cacophony so it isn't a pile of suck.

If you don't feel your envoy is doing a good job, contact your patron.

QUOTE (Celina @ Feb 4 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Necroscream. Report. Please. I'll I'm asking for is for the same chance Spiritsingers got. That's all I want. The opportunity for a massive overhaul so we can actual compete in the PK arena. Equal treatment, please.

We are not re-issuing special reports for the same skillsets. There is, however, nothing preventing the envoys from collectively all envoying a Cacophony change, or something similar. As I told you last time when you mentioned Spiritsingers, no one has envoyed any Spiritsinger changes lately, and any envoy is free to submit changes to Wildarrane.

QUOTE (Celina @ Feb 4 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So glad we're on round 3 with monks though. Time well spent.

The changes in the special report are much less intense than the momentum revamp. I'd prefer to call it 2.1. I think those who have been involved in the process agree it has been well spent time.
Shiri2009-02-04 07:27:53
QUOTE (Charune @ Feb 4 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was giving the equivalent of a ... level 4 eq/balance penalty.


doh.gif Well that friggin' explains a lot.
Unknown2009-02-04 12:27:04
I didn't think my facepaints were anything out of the ordinary, so I'm rather surprised to see them in that list.
Xenthos2009-02-04 12:35:33
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Feb 4 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't think my facepaints were anything out of the ordinary, so I'm rather surprised to see them in that list.

They were previously giving a full "level 1" gain, I believe-- which would currently equate to something like a level 1.33 gain. Believe the speed was dropped from 10% to 7%, something like that. Don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it was not quite halved. Shouldn't really be all that noticeable with the smaller amounts. If, however, you had some larger speed boosts and were stacking them, you'll probably feel significantly slower.
Narsrim2009-02-04 12:50:48
QUOTE (Charune @ Feb 4 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We are not re-issuing special reports for the same skillsets. There is, however, nothing preventing the envoys from collectively all envoying a Cacophony change, or something similar. As I told you last time when you mentioned Spiritsingers, no one has envoyed any Spiritsinger changes lately, and any envoy is free to submit changes to Wildarrane.


I have a serious question for you: how do you think Cantors/Cacophony stack up to Spiritsingers?

Personally, I don't see how anyone can justify Spiritsingers being anything but vastly superior. They get better passive hindering, better passive afflictions that synergize with said hindering, viable kill options using damage, better DMP for defense and offense, high end passive damage, utility skills of which there are no equivalents in Starhymn/Necroscream (read: Ancestral Watch), etc.

If I were a bard, I'd be angry too. The administration has shown unfair treatment to Spiritsingers. It's likewise ludicrous for you to suggest that other envoys are going to waste spots where they could be changing their own guild skills to focus on an another guild. This never happens, and it's not going to happen for Cacophony. In fact, this was the entire reason special envoy reports were created.

I think the administration should accept it failed to bring Cacophony up to par, and in turn, issue another special envoy report.

EDIT:

And while generally accepted, I think it's fair to say that Cantors suck even more than Cacophony. Compare +300 damage every 10 seconds from Crusade Canto and Recessional to Ancient Feud, Ancient Fealty, and Cairn Largo.
Unknown2009-02-04 13:04:09
You can always unite the other envoys to remove/nerf the +damage of Spiritsingers tongue.gif. Also, yeah, I think another special report for the other Bard guilds should be done. Spiritsingers have become warriorlite.
Xavius2009-02-04 13:10:38
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Feb 4 2009, 06:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a serious question for you: how do you think Cantors/Cacophony stack up to Spiritsingers?

Personally, I don't see how anyone can justify Spiritsingers being anything but vastly superior. They get better passive hindering, better passive afflictions that synergize with said hindering, viable kill options using damage, better DMP for defense and offense, high end passive damage, utility skills of which there are no equivalents in Starhymn/Necroscream (read: Ancestral Watch), etc.

If I were a bard, I'd be angry too. The administration has shown unfair treatment to Spiritsingers. It's likewise ludicrous for you to suggest that other envoys are going to waste spots where they could be changing their own guild skills to focus on an another guild. This never happens, and it's not going to happen for Cacophony. In fact, this was the entire reason special envoy reports were created.

I think the administration should accept it failed to bring Cacophony up to par, and in turn, issue another special envoy report.

EDIT:

And while generally accepted, I think it's fair to say that Cantors suck even more than Cacophony. Compare +300 damage every 10 seconds from Crusade Canto and Recessional to Ancient Feud, Ancient Fealty, and Cairn Largo.


What Narsrim is trying to say here is that long-term game balance should not be determined by how greedy/creative/convincing/popular the envoys are at any particular moment, nor should the administration having cool and creative ideas be the reason why one group gets big buffs and another group gets little buffs.
Narsrim2009-02-04 13:27:18
QUOTE (Alacardael! @ Feb 4 2009, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can always unite the other envoys to remove/nerf the +damage of Spiritsingers. Also, yeah, I think another special report for the other Bard guilds should be done. Spiritsingers have become warriorlite.


This isn't so much a problem of "Spiritsingers are overpowered" (assuming the passive dodging is fixed) - it's a matter of Cacophony and Cantors are terrible. I don't feel "make everyone suck" is the best approach to the core issue. However, the administration "fixed" Wildarrane such that it is no longer abysmal, but never put forth the effort to do the same for Starhymn or Necroscream.

I usually leave Shadowbeat out of my analysis because it's a bit better off with Aurics + Nightshadeblues + MinorSixth.

EDIT:

As a former Cantor, I'm rather annoyed that Crusade Canto was nerfed (it used to add +600 damage every 10 seconds) to be followed by Ancient Feud, which tends to do around the same if not more damage passively in addition to a carcer-like effect.

That's complete and utter censor.gif right there.
Unknown2009-02-04 13:30:16
Has anyone taken the initiative to write a massively detailed description of proposed changes the way Lendren and a couple others did? I think that was a huge contributing factor in the upgrading of the Spiritsingers.
Shiri2009-02-04 13:32:54
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Feb 4 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone taken the initiative to write a massively detailed description of proposed changes the way Lendren and a couple others did? I think that was a huge contributing factor in the upgrading of the Spiritsingers.

1. Yes; Celina made a huge cacophony upgrade in the forums and got shut down because they're "not considering another special report at this time"
2. Lendren wrote the stuff up -after- the skills were out, to explain it to everyone and not be a punk like when ninjakari refused to give trigger lines
3. The ideas the SS gave them were completely different from what the admin put out
Narsrim2009-02-04 13:33:15
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Feb 4 2009, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone taken the initiative to write a massively detailed description of proposed changes the way Lendren and a couple others did? I think that was a huge contributing factor in the upgrading of the Spiritsingers.


The report I saw was not the report the administration implemented. As I recall, the current version of Wildarrane was administratively developed.

To answer your question, however, Cacophony did have a special envoy report, which was subject to criticism by all Envoys. In the end, almost nothing became of it. The abilities added pale in comparison to Wildarrane, which was never subject to the same scrutiny or feedback.
Unknown2009-02-04 13:43:58
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Feb 4 2009, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They were previously giving a full "level 1" gain, I believe-- which would currently equate to something like a level 1.33 gain. Believe the speed was dropped from 10% to 7%, something like that. Don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it was not quite halved. Shouldn't really be all that noticeable with the smaller amounts. If, however, you had some larger speed boosts and were stacking them, you'll probably feel significantly slower.


I think abilities previously giving level 1 were giving the equivalent of current level 2. By 'effectively level 4,' it was probably meant that TaintedLove was giving a level 2 penalty to enemies and level 2 bonus to allies.
Lendren2009-02-04 13:57:01
I'd love to claim credit there but I only contributed a few bits to the design.

The guild was asked to do a redesign but for various reasons we thought we couldn't ask for very big changes. So our proposals were all limited to smaller changes which left the skillset barely any more focused than the old version, but at least that got rid of the sleep-attrition thing. These were rejected, and rightly so, they were not that great because of the limits we thought were on us that we tried to stay within. I wonder sometimes if we had been given the idea that something as radically different as the new Wildarrane was possible, what we might have come up with.

When Estarra brushed all that aside and gave us the far more ambitious and interesting proposal she came up with, I only added a few details here and there. Mostly I wrote the message texts, but I didn't really design the skillset itself, its mechanics.
Jayden2009-02-04 14:35:18
QUOTE (Narsrim @ Feb 4 2009, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a serious question for you: how do you think Cantors/Cacophony stack up to Spiritsingers?

Personally, I don't see how anyone can justify Spiritsingers being anything but vastly superior. They get better passive hindering, better passive afflictions that synergize with said hindering, viable kill options using damage, better DMP for defense and offense, high end passive damage, utility skills of which there are no equivalents in Starhymn/Necroscream (read: Ancestral Watch), etc.

If I were a bard, I'd be angry too. The administration has shown unfair treatment to Spiritsingers. It's likewise ludicrous for you to suggest that other envoys are going to waste spots where they could be changing their own guild skills to focus on an another guild. This never happens, and it's not going to happen for Cacophony. In fact, this was the entire reason special envoy reports were created.

I think the administration should accept it failed to bring Cacophony up to par, and in turn, issue another special envoy report.

EDIT:

And while generally accepted, I think it's fair to say that Cantors suck even more than Cacophony. Compare +300 damage every 10 seconds from Crusade Canto and Recessional to Ancient Feud, Ancient Fealty, and Cairn Largo.



For the longest time the Harbingers were designated as the weakest of not only the bard guilds, but of all the guilds at that time. (it sucked balls hard) There was no special report for Shadowbeat. There was never any crying about how awful it was the likes of what Celina (and other) is doing. Yet somehow Harbingers and Shadowbeat managed to become one of the more balanced guilds.

Why is it that Cacophony and Cantors cannot be expected to do the same?

Both the Spiritsingers and Cacophony received special reports to get away from the attrition aspect that both had, and that was accomplished. Now it would be time for each guild's envoys to step to the plate and improve Starhymn and Necroscream like Kaervas did with Shadowbeat.
Shiri2009-02-04 14:39:11
Starhymn is getting a report.