Then this just essentially bypasses the report to make bad luck cost power, doesn't it? How long is homunuculus balance?

Reimagination. It doesn't last forever, but it looks doesn't look like it needs to.

These were updates based on the special reports submitted after new guild skills were released (like we always do when new skills are released), not updates based on a Sior Ustream. I understand you may want other changes (who doesn't?) but this update is focused on what we said it would be.

All updates on the wiki are done now, at least everything I could find (use the Recent Changes link or RSS/Atom feed to see what changed). Note that a lot of skills also shifted where you get them (usually for the better) in addition to the changes you heard about.

Why would institute nerf balestone? I just gave a comparison of two skills that should be comparable. If you want we can compare with the celestialism skill that damages UNDEAD only. Normalish damage, eq, no other cost. This is against a target who has a requirement met. Balestone again is roomwide, stronger, and low cost.

Thought the purpose of the report was to fix Illuminati and yet the most OP skill/affliction they have was untouched. I would hope this makes sense I would be disappointed.

Incidentally, this thread is getting REALLY long. Maybe it's time to close and unsticky it and make a Son Of Envoy Reports thread?

They would if they felt it was overpowered. I've been impressed with the Institute envoys (Geb and then Prav) who appear to me to be very objective in pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of their skills. Yes, they that means they ask for nerfs for their own skills which earns a lot of respect from the admin (and something all envoys should strive for).

Because envoys are Fair and Balanced - Just like FOX News!

You mean like passive defense stripping? Which by the way would make balestone do even more damage if it gets rid of the proper defense. Just seems like this report didnt really fix much and in fact made more issues.

I agree Geb is usually pretty sober in his logic. Prav too really. But that does not mean people will make everything strong weaker. Like, to them it might just be a stronger hailstorm, which by comparison makes it fine, but in terms of other guardians it is not a fair comparison.

I welcome any conversations on balance. I am a monk who talks about nerfs and changes to not make us so insane and everyone whines on how OP I am, but change after change the new cities get stronger and stronger when a monk already has issues with a TK and both new guardians.

It could be easy to moderate choke....

Make moondance light disperse shadows. Can't disperse on a New Moon, and shadows can't be formed on a Full Moon.

Yeah, I have to say that I'm a little confused that a special report on Illuminati and Institute completely ignored the two issues (balestone and badluck) that are identified by 90% of the fighting playerbase as by far the largest issues with those two guilds.

You know, the funny thing is I nagged at least every 2 -3 days on envoys, for a month, "Please comment on the special reports" and in that entire month, 3 envoys that were not Geb or I commented and one of those envoys waited till the last day to comment.

If you have complaints about the changes or lack of changes or lack of things brought up, perhaps you should speak to the other how many envoys that decided they had no comments either way about Illuminati or Institute skills.

I like this idea.

Thank you for pointing it out.

I would love that interview still, not only can we discuss some issues in things that are being pointed out here. We could discuss specifics on monks and changing them with admin to talk to instead of shots in the dark that are subject to interpretation like using a slot.

Asking for Nerfs precludes abilities being overpowered in the first place. If envoys feel like their skills suck or are underwhelming in the first place, or even if they feel like its balanced enough as it is, They aren't going to ask for it to be weakened. "Oh please, downgrade my ability which I feel is already to weak or is balanced just the way it is." I'm no envoy, nor have I ever been, but it seems to me that if an envoy has to ASK for their own skill to be weakened, that's a fault of the designers in the first place, they shouldn't ever have to do that. My Two cents I guess.

As someone fighting on the side of the people who use balestone:

It has some serious problems.

As someone fighting on the side opposite badluck:



Feel free to reverse these depending on which side you're on! The point is, they's got some issues.

Thanks for that!

We really do rely on envoys to be our eyes and ears. If they don't point things out, then we aren't going to know about it. You may believe that 90% of the combat playerbase believes something or another, but if that's so, then you should encourage the envoys to address it. Otherwise we don't know. (And, sorry, we try to avoid making decisions based off of a couple of anecdotal posts that presume to speak for the entire combat playerbase.)

Anyway, we worked hard on these changes and it's disheartening to hear so many complaints! Overall, I do think these changes are balanced and, especially, offer more depth to the guilds.

So with the knowledge that balestone and badluck are considered issues would you be willing to visit them now? There are some other things I think might be a mistake but those are not as important.

And about that interview on monks + whatever else you want thoughts on.....? I promise I wont bite

Maybe we should give it a few days to try them out before passing judgement and complaining about some words in a file?

Oh boy.

I'm not particularly thrilled at room off eq, but it will be hilarious. pretty sure balestone wasn't mentioned because at the time of the report, there was no one whoring it up. I like the other stuff.

On illuminati, I'm not sure why the homunculus was needed. And being able to give free badluck through them is pretty meh.