I said I didn't use most of them. And, I would live just fine without the regen and +1 stat.

Drawdown/Shine changing with the Moon phase is rather annoying. At least Trueheal is useful all the time.

Bottom line: we all have things we dislike about our abilities/buffs/homes/etc. We don't always get to pick what gets changed or how.

Well, Moon is more defensive than Night. The coven membership card starts mattering more when you aren't required to carry around x Moon/Night users on your raids, instead freeing it up to 'X number of commune members'. Bonds, Gloomtide come to mind.

Again, seriously, I don't know where we got into semi-serious discussion of nerfing other constructs (outside of the Spike's sip bonus); I would really rather have Hallifax's stuff be more useful utility. +1 CHA will always be useful, even if you don't influence for experience - consider debates, village revolts and the associated ego boost. Damage resistances are perhaps a bit more situational. Aeon resistance is fairly PvP-centric; and again I'd gladly give it up for more useful utility.

Regen is cool, blizzardsight would be amazing, alacrity would be nice (it heals once every 17 seconds by default, I should mention), faster flight would be neat. Things everyone actually can or want to make use of.

We should trade mindclock for insight.

Yes, Moonchilde mooncovening means very little. However, I'm not here to make suggestions for nerfing the other constructs. If the other players feel like they should, then by all means.

Hallifax isn't happy that their construct isn't as good as the others, so I offered to nerf the Moon Altar. I'd rather see the game with less super powers rather than more. If it means I have to nerf my own skills to prevent that from happening, I'm happy to.

I can safely tell you, if I really cared to max my charisma, that +1 CHA means nothing to me, so no, that +1 CHA is not always useful.

Regen and alacrity are not "utility". They are as PvP-centric as aeon resistance is.

I can't/don't want to make use of all but two of the things in the Moon Altar. Regeneration (in case I'm not somewhere where I'm maxed out anyway) and moonbeam (which, I'll admit, is just a great utility skill for when I don't want to walk).

I'm actually kind of fond of moonbeam for all and faster moonbeam for moon users >_> I wish Glom had a similarly great utility instead of garb, but that's neither here nor there.

Other people being able to join covens is awesome.

And honestly, the Halli and Gaudi constructs could use a bit of awesoming, but eh, I wish the admin still gave us a 'this is what we're gonna give you, discuss' plan before implementing it.

So how about that spike.

Ah, I misunderstood. I'm not familiar with that skillset so I assumed they were attacks.




Well, first of all, you're right. The concept of balance isn't having equal amount of construct powers. It's about having everything balanced, including construct powers. If that means nerfing Researchers so that they're more in line with wiccans or other guardians, then so be it.

You don't use a construct to balance a class, and I'm sure you of all people can understand that(or a race, cough Magnagora). If you don't play anymore, there's no need to bring your negative attitude to this discussion.

If you think giving Magnagora a sip bonus and afflicting VS flying and exit-blocking once a day is balanced, you're crazy.

3.5 second faeling balance spike isn't the problem with that construct.

I can't tell if this is facetious or not.

And if you really want to argue that 500 health every 17 seconds, or that 300 health every 15 or so via regeneration is as PvP-centric as damage bonuses, resistances, stat boosts and affliction shrugging, I contend that moonbeam is a PvP skill as well because it allows for easier gathering and organizing of groups during open-field combat.

Heh. Had something else, but it wasn't that funny.

Wtf are you talking about, pretty sure everyone acknowledges that everyone being able to give plague affs actively synergizes really well in an org that uses those same affs to do damage, that pales in comparison to them sipping better than everyone else for little to no cost. Which also applies to -both- pvp and pve.

So yes, it is the main problem and I have no idea how you think it isn't.

No, I'm serious. I honestly think that isn't the worst part about the Iron Machine. Sure, being able to sprawl/stun everyone in the room once a month is nice, but with the long balance and it affecting allies as well, I don't see it as being as much of the problem as the other parts.

Yeah alright, moonbeam is a PvP skill. What's your point?

Edit: Just read Shuyin's post. Oh, alright. I thought you were just talking about the slam spike effect.

Honestly I don't even care if the spike lets them just spam plague affs, it's not exactly new for Mag, and to be quite honest, people die more to good old yank into gank and barrier/chasm than plague ganks anyway. Just because the former is much, much easier and lazier to do.

Nienla's not afraid of getting forum-zerged, at least!

For what its worth, its eerily similar to a year ago, when the yelling about aeromancy not being as good as pyromancy ultimately resulted in a gross overcorrection, leaving aeromancy markedly better than pyros. Between that, and whatever it is reseachers are, any sympathy I may have once harboured for halli's forum cries for justice is a pretty dry desert.

That's not an argument against this issue. It's just a wary reaction to a forum mob a bit too big for its britches, and who's "suggestions" I trust about as much as a fat kid in a twinkie factory.


That aside, lets talk about the spike. Or more specifically, the sip bonus.

I'll come right out and say it. While it looks nice, I'm failing to see why its as dramtically a big deal as its being portrayed. I mean, its not as if, say, Glom walked away empty handed here- an equivalent of a demesne grounding effect is a nice little toy. Celest's starlight bit is apparently like carcer, which will be nice for non ritual users and keeping giant lord of the rings spiders at bay.

Is it because the sip bonus is just generally useful? I get told that health and DMP don't matter much in group fights- I don't really agree with that, especially in regards to DMP, but IF that was someone's premise, what makes a sip bonus different?

I mean, since I'm in Celest, which is the hard-locked enemy for mags if ever there was one, so what about the sip bonus is so disconcerting that it warrants a strong reaction?

I know we can give 7% figures out and such, but more organically, when Monklarious and a few geos show up on water, why would the sip bonus be perturbing to me? (Not asking a question as a form of rejection of the statement at all here, I'm actually asking.)

I think the reason why the sip bonus is such a big issue is because Magnagora made it a big issue while discussing faeling/viscanti.

As annoying as that might be argumentatively, it doesn't have a real bearing on the current debate, any more so than me rolling my eyes above at the Halli forum zerg. So I hope that's not a core reason for the actual argument.

On the topic of MOONBEAM, I'd much rather have a CONVOKE-related bonus then an AGEING one. The skill isn't what I would call cost-effective.

It always confounds me how everyone always makes a big deal of criticism, whether it's doing the criticizing, opposing it, or criticizing the fact that the criticizing is going on in the first place, or on the scale that it's going on.

Hallifax is not out to get you.

Seriously.

It would be reasonable to be wary if, say, a monk guild was envoying a buff to a core mechanic (monk damage, monk speed). But being wary because a city wants better utility is, well, not really wariness anymore, it's outright paranoia mixed with a great deal of cynicism. The only real members of the 'forum mob' here seem to be, well, Arel and myself, as we're the only ones protesting all that loudly. Everyone else is just pitching in and going 'yeah, this is underwhelming, try X or Y or Z'. I'm not sure how half-time flight/double gem harvest/a level 2 regeneration in clouded terrain is part of the anti-Pyromancy/pro-Aeromancer conspiracy.

Okay, and seriously, you posted it again while I was typing this up. "Hallifax forum zerg?" Off the top of my head I can recall 6 people commenting:

Aicuthi, Ileein, myself, Prav and Phoebus(?), Arel.

Zerg? We spent half the time talking about puff of logic fart-clouds.

It's more that the sipping is much more versatile and invaluable than flying and electrical protection. Specifically because people think: 1) The ability to fly should already be present, especially in a city where the collegium quests involve flight 2) We don't need anymore electrical protection.

Or you could just wait for a month and see what happens.