Yup

You're the one that talked about it being simple to walk out of a demesne. At least I provided a log showing the difficulty of someone trying to escape without tumble. What evidence have you used to back up your statements?

I fought Mederrach 4 times no more than 2 weeks ago and all I had to do was stay in the same room as him for no more than 2 minutes before I got Heartbursted. I'm sorry, but I've had plenty of experiences fighting Telekinesis from Geb, Mederrach, and various other Psionists. How many spars have you had against other Psionists? Honestly, I don't care if you think it used to be doable or not in under 2 minutes, I know it is. The fact that Geb, the best Aquamancer in the game agreed that it was too powerful and needed to be changed is good enough for me.

2 weeks ago != now. Yes, the old heartburst was too good. I'm not thinking anyone here has said that is was fine as it was. So, the old heartburst took under 2 minutes to pull off? Lets call "under 2 minutes" 90 seconds, just for fun. People have been saying that it takes 2.5x as long now, so 2.5x90 = something lots more then 2 minutes. And fighting psionics users doesn't mean you know much about them, as proven by the numerous incorrect statements that you made earlier in the thread.

If jellyfish had a chance to give either paralysis or stun/knockdown... would that improve the demesne up to a reasonable level without making mages too powerful?

Edit: Remember that a mage does a lot more damage than a druid, and also has far more active affliction abilities, particularly with psionics.

Edit edit: Actually nevermind.

Totems aren't part of Groves so that point is moot, that's akin to demesnes having statues all over. Hey, if you still had Demesne I'm pretty sure that's good enough to kill 90% of the player base as well. Bees and Golems can be killed rather fast and as Rhoan stated can be turned against the Druid. Also, all Grove abilities cost Grove Energy that can only replenished with time. Out of energy = useless Grove. And finally, a Grove can be instantly destroyed with a Holocaust or Exterminate if it hasn't been Preserved.


You really need to re-read Mederrach's post.

It used to be possible to pull off Heartburst within 43 seconds, and if you're lucky enough there is a 1/81 chance you could do it in 23 seconds. The new time with Sparkleberries is now 108 seconds, which is 2.5 longer. However, if you are once again lucky enough, you could pull it off in 33 seconds.

Calculations-
With an average of 2 vessels per burst:
2/4t = 1/4.5t + 12 + 1/6t
t = 108

With an average of 3 vessels per burst:
3/4t = 1/4.5t + 12 + 1/6t
t= 33.23 seconds

Currents would be fun with statues in every room...... wait, why are we talking about groves anyways?

Revan brought it up saying how much better it is than Demesnes.

But remember: These are -theoretical- values based on assumptions. The assumption is that there is NO DELAY in the Telekinetic's offensive whatsoever. The old heartburst, realistically, took about a minute or more (unless you're a newbie that can't fight, then it would've been waaaaay faster). The new heartburst will take much longer than the proposed theoretical value.

I am not a newbie but I can't fight anyway. Mederrach killed me with heartburst, before the change, in 30 seconds or so after I entered the room.

But yeah, with the new change, I could last a bit longer.

If only it was possible to kill people with sacrifice one vs one

This stuff about demesnes being crap is BS, especially for Geomancers whom have the sweetest demesne in the game.

Finally, a Mage that admits that demesnes aren't horribly weak.

Inquisition is still easy to do very power ful but now you can't use it to make people pray? Whats your problem again?



Also you know whats interesting you can use illusions without slowing down your use of heartburst anyway so....Use them.



Thats not really true, I did think the same once but after actually seeing a decent druid, which yea is really rare, druids do have many more options than sap just until now no one has even bothered looking at them, everyone has been to occupided with the fact that sap is very powerfull and easy to do, I think borcas coming along really well give him a bit more time and I bet people wont be saying sap is all druids can do, just because its all they have been doing dosnt mean its all they have.




No lusternia combat refuses to use synergy If you can't win fights by pressing the same two or three macros in a row then it isnt lusternia combat.




Groves easily out pase most peoples sips and moss, demenses don't even come close, Groves also constantly give a passive prismic barrier. I think your forgetting about the good old grove behead, totem+entangle+Timed prismic barrier to come up so many classes cant even think about stopping it other than to crash out which is tricky to get all the time.



Yea thats one point thats always been brought up, groves are overpowered and they should be overpowered because of how limited in mobility they are, demenses should be fairly balanced because you can take them every where.

Well, Geo demesne is the best of the demesnes.

burst vessel change is ok, it certainly won't lessen a mage's resolve, mages used to fight with just runes so I don't see the problem. Also in group 5-6 telekinetics with only one trans = instant dead still even with 2 telekinetics you can cause havoc, team with a celestine who is going for absolve and the opponent will have t chose absolve or burst vessels. So extremely powerfull in team combat still.

also burst is not the only usefull skill, barrier, forcefield, throatlock, leglock... for a tertiary skill telekinesis is really nice.

Just a pointer towards a discussion I'd like to have on the inquisition change, in the combat section.

Help me understand this?

What do you not understand?
The fact you'll no longer be able to force people to pray?

Yeah, funny how the person that "admits" it has a demesne that kills decent combatants -by itself-. You hear what you want to hear.

His calculations were the *absolute minimum*. The example of you being beaten in "under two minutes" two weeks ago was a practical scenario. If it took under a minute, you would have said so. So 90 seconds I think is a reasonable time to guess at what "under two minutes" is. So, if it took 90 seconds two weeks ago, its going to take a lot longer now.

No, they were not. His calculations were based on an average of two vessels per burst, which is 43 seconds. The absolute minimum is 23 seconds, which I calculated based on an average of three vessels per burst. The new absolute minimum time you can kill someone with Heartburst is 34 seconds. Again, have you bothered fighting anyone recently with this new change? The calculations were obviously done under a perfect condition, which we all know isn't feasible. But until I actually start seeing Psionists start posting logs of how they're incapable of killing people I'm still calling this change to be a great one.


If you die to a demesne alone then you really suck, end of story. Unless you're stuck in one and passing out from hunger there is absolutely no reasons why you should die to it. I usually don't like to discredit non-fighters that comment on combat and balance issues but as far as I know you are never mentioned as a combatant. I'm not even going to take your replies seriously anymore. It's clear that you're one of those people that feel they need to be able to instantly kill someone without a single ounce of efforts.

Psionics and demesnes aside, I really hope runes get looked at as well. They need to be improved. It's a good concept and I'd love to see an alternative to psionics besides weaving. Just don't make it a hex clone, as they -are- rather similar.