I'm curious about something. If you ignite yourself and don't cure it, will vines burn up every time the fire damage hits you?

Are you not reading that log? See the "P" in his prompt? That means prone. Why was he prone? Because he was entangled. He could not get out of the entanglement due to the passive entangling of darkseed combined with the active thornlashing.

He could not fight back.

It was my understanding the point of INVOKE SUMMER/EVOKE TIPHERET was that they could be used while entangled, in order to remove the entanglement.

I did try to read as closely as I could, but I didn't see any reasons why tipheret would be blocked or hindered. That's why I asked for a log where it was used where possible.

If I am missing something, I apologize... but it seems to me that if you're vined/thorned, the best way to get out of it is to use tipheret then rub ignite. Not easy by any means in combat, but sometimes a better option than writhing. Until now, writhing has always been a better option for small races, I just don't think that's the case anymore.

As I said, I may be missing something though.

Edit: Alternatively, you could use tipheret to remove the vines, then attack back to hinder the druid (since thorns don't completely stop offense), writhing while you keep them busy.

I'm actually concerned about how this will run through enchantments. It's a powerless skill which basically requires an enchantment to get out of... an enchantment that will quickly run out, because this is going to be a *primary* Druid tactic, instead of a secondary Necromancer tactic that was changed to have a powercost so it couldn't burn up huge quantities of cleanse.

Summer should work the same as ignite

since its burning winds and all that.

Aye, though the viability of using many charges as opposed to many sips is quite a separate concern to what appears to be the complaint here.

Would be cool if you could apply fire potion to yourself and have it do the same thing as ignite, on a similar balance. 'apply fire', 'You splash some fire potion over your body. The liquid ignites and begins to burn away at your flesh.' 'All of the vines raking your limbs wither and fall away.'

Or something. Just to save on enchantments.

Imagine if you had someone with trample, too.

You can invoke summer with broken legs. I'll test broken arms when I am able.

Yea right now it is insane... and did you see the bleeding??? Holy shit... I mean a 522prc weapon doesnt cause that much bleeding on the first few hits... damn that is scary what are those lashes? Is it razor wire that the druids stole from some supermax prison??? Ick along with permaprone... and now Veo throwing in trample... HOLY!!!! THAT IS INSANE!!!!

But if you're trying to attack someone, you can't with broken arms (at least for mages, and I'm ASSUMING warriors, and I dont know, are there attacks you can perform through broken arms?), so it just adds even longer until you can even attack, and by then you could be vined or webbed or whatever again.

That is actually an interesting theory. It probably would be a good idea to test that.

You can't really do anything warrior wise with broken arms... At least attack... or like transverse a plane... so I would assume rubbing an enchant is out of the question not sure about evoking or writhing though.

You can writhe. (I think? Don't see why not). Not sure about evoking.

You can invoke summer with broken arms. Paralysis stops it, however.

So... to escape the new "permaprone" - focus body, concentrate if stagstomped, invoke summer.

Which is about 5 seconds all in all. Normal equi is 4. what stops you from just vining again?


And damn, my staff does 1000 damage. I am envious of that bleeding.

You can swim with two broken legs. Don't ask.

Then again, that might just be a random good thing about Trout...?

Alright, the only way to keep someone down with thornlash is to web them first, you should already be writhing out of that web before the first lash hits, then you will be able to continue your offence (lash doesn't hinder anything but movement, sometimes...) on them while they waste eq stacking up some bleeding. After they get three or four on you, ignite. If they web you in there you can just bypass the vines by using tipheret/summer. It's not that bad to deal with if you look at it the right way, and trying to balance a skill in group combat is stupid.

I don't know why you're getting 5 seconds...

For me with transcendant discipline, focus body takes between 0.3s and 1.1s (tending towards 0.6s on average).

Invoke summer was pretty constant around 2.0s (though I saw times between 1.8s and 2.2s).

On normal equilibrium, vines seems to be between 3.0 and 3.2s to cast.

With +1 eq bonus, vines seems to be around 2.8s. Invoke summer decreases as well, by about 0.1s.

I find it hard to believe you could have an opponent that could do anything other than vine constantly to keep you bound. If they are, they're not doing any more lashings. Other afflictions will slow you down more, of course... but that's true with any class, and requires your attacker to stop vining.

Edit: Ooo, wait. Our demesne gives confusion sometimes. Forgot about that. So that could double the time to invoke/evoke... but its pretty hard to hinder pennyroyal curing, I think. Hmm... need to think about that.

Edit edit: Oh, and for some reason, thornlash seems to be around 3.8-3.9s on +1 equilibrium. So it is even longer to cast than vines.

(Remember that "group combat" means there's a group on each side! Balancing combat for 5v1 is dumb. With a group on each side, you can... *gasp* ignite your friends! Let them BURN MERILY!)

Perhaps thornlash should be 1p, and thornrend should be 3p? Or perhaps we should go back to the original original suggestion, and have the way to cure them not be writhe, but be HACK VINE (requires a bladed weapon, requires eq/bal takes 2sec balance, or maybe instead it's a delayed action that requires eq/balance to start, but takes 2secs to complete, during which time you can still attack, as long as you don't become paralysed, entangled, or move in that time?)