Verithrax2007-07-13 09:39:47
QUOTE(Hazar @ Jul 13 2007, 01:53 AM) 425254
Well, golly gee. I apologize - back when I made my first post here, I didn't really understand everything that was going on. Let me restate!
So let's...uninvest! Without jobs, everyone will be freer to commit bloodshed!
So let's...uninvest! Without jobs, everyone will be freer to commit bloodshed!
Right. Well, why don't you propose solutions instead of blaming whole civilizations? Sending them money sure as hell won't help. The presence of foreign companies there won't, either (How do you even know they employ local labour to start with?). Military intervention definitely won't help (It never has, and the Americans have a track record of failing miserably at that sort of thing since the 1950's. More likely than not, the US GIs would be beaten back by nomadic arabs with sticks. Either that, or after the first five days there will be no nomadic arabs. Or sticks.).
Right now, western civilization is stumped on how to deal with this sort of thing. The best we can do is use them as a cautionary tale about either non-sustainable ways of life ultimately failing, or about how the fact that our guns basically change the dynamics of what 500 years ago would be a routine tribal conflict, thus ultimately making us in some way responsible to keep this sort of crap from happening. Unfortunately, of course, that silly thing we call national sovereignty stops us from doing that except through ineffective NGOs or self-interest corporations, which are more part of the problem than anything.
Hazar2007-07-13 13:34:07
Sorry, but the veil of ignorance needs to be torn away once in a while.
I can produce one very straightforward solution, however, which addresses both this and many connected problems.
Stop subsidizing American and European farming, and help African farming get up to par.
There's no good reason anymore for the subsidies farmers in places like France and southern Illinois. But because things like electoral politics give western farmers an undue amount of influence, they stay. This protectionist hedge-raising absolutely demolishes the capability of third-world farmers to do well. Because instead of being able to compete on their home markets - nominally what subsidies are for - western farmers end up selling lots of food in the third world, and between more advanced techniques, greater scale to work with, and the subsidies, the local farmers have no real way to compete. This drives them into continuing poverty and helps leave the continent as a whole more food-vulnerable.
When we think about the anecdotal 'starving children in Africa', we think of tiny villages that need us to send them money for wells or communal cell phones. But the problem is much closer to home.
I can produce one very straightforward solution, however, which addresses both this and many connected problems.
Stop subsidizing American and European farming, and help African farming get up to par.
There's no good reason anymore for the subsidies farmers in places like France and southern Illinois. But because things like electoral politics give western farmers an undue amount of influence, they stay. This protectionist hedge-raising absolutely demolishes the capability of third-world farmers to do well. Because instead of being able to compete on their home markets - nominally what subsidies are for - western farmers end up selling lots of food in the third world, and between more advanced techniques, greater scale to work with, and the subsidies, the local farmers have no real way to compete. This drives them into continuing poverty and helps leave the continent as a whole more food-vulnerable.
When we think about the anecdotal 'starving children in Africa', we think of tiny villages that need us to send them money for wells or communal cell phones. But the problem is much closer to home.
Hazar2007-07-13 13:34:11
Whee, double post. Go-go slow wireless. Anyhow, might as well say something.
There's a growing tendency among western intellectuals to discount any criticism of the civilization's failings and mistakes, largely as a backlash against the way that was once trendy. There needs to be a middle ground.
There's a growing tendency among western intellectuals to discount any criticism of the civilization's failings and mistakes, largely as a backlash against the way that was once trendy. There needs to be a middle ground.
Daganev2007-07-13 15:31:10
QUOTE(Hazar @ Jul 13 2007, 06:34 AM) 425352
Sorry, but the veil of ignorance needs to be torn away once in a while.
I can produce one very straightforward solution, however, which addresses both this and many connected problems.
Stop subsidizing American and European farming, and help African farming get up to par.
There's no good reason anymore for the subsidies farmers in places like France and southern Illinois. But because things like electoral politics give western farmers an undue amount of influence, they stay. This protectionist hedge-raising absolutely demolishes the capability of third-world farmers to do well. Because instead of being able to compete on their home markets - nominally what subsidies are for - western farmers end up selling lots of food in the third world, and between more advanced techniques, greater scale to work with, and the subsidies, the local farmers have no real way to compete. This drives them into continuing poverty and helps leave the continent as a whole more food-vulnerable.
When we think about the anecdotal 'starving children in Africa', we think of tiny villages that need us to send them money for wells or communal cell phones. But the problem is much closer to home.
I can produce one very straightforward solution, however, which addresses both this and many connected problems.
Stop subsidizing American and European farming, and help African farming get up to par.
There's no good reason anymore for the subsidies farmers in places like France and southern Illinois. But because things like electoral politics give western farmers an undue amount of influence, they stay. This protectionist hedge-raising absolutely demolishes the capability of third-world farmers to do well. Because instead of being able to compete on their home markets - nominally what subsidies are for - western farmers end up selling lots of food in the third world, and between more advanced techniques, greater scale to work with, and the subsidies, the local farmers have no real way to compete. This drives them into continuing poverty and helps leave the continent as a whole more food-vulnerable.
When we think about the anecdotal 'starving children in Africa', we think of tiny villages that need us to send them money for wells or communal cell phones. But the problem is much closer to home.
I beleive Tony Blair tried to get the EU to do just that, (mostly for eastern Europe's sake) and it didn't quite work out to well.
But here is a letter I JUST received in my email.
Once every five years we have a chance to reform the U.S. Farm Bill, parts of which are a major roadblock to ending extreme poverty. And this is our year.
As a small farmer I know full well the impact the agricultural subsidies have; they let large farms drive down prices so small farmers here and around the world can't compete. For years I have been speaking out about the poverty that these subsidies create, but this year we finally have a chance to change it all.
Please help spread the word about this opportunity by sending a letter to the editor of your local newspaper.
The Farm Bill has been around for decades, and there is a widely held misconception that it is beneficial to farmers like myself. The truth is that the top 8% of big business farms receive over half of the subsidies, and more than half of all farmers receive nothing. As a result, small farmers aren't able to compete. If we can change this, millions of small farmers around the world can have an opportunity to work their way out of extreme poverty.
But to overcome an entrenched law like this, we are going to need to spread awareness, pressure the media to pay attention to it, and let our elected leaders know that we want it to change.
The best way to do all of these is by writing a letter to the editor. To make it easier, some of the folks at ONE have written a sample letter and talking points for you to use in your own letter.
The Farm Bill is one of the most complicated pieces of legislation in Congress. It is thousands of pages long and contains hundreds of programs. However, what you need to know is the Farm Bill doesn't only impact small farmers like me - it impacts all of us. It decides how much you pay at the grocery store and whether an impoverished farmer will be able to feed his family.
That's why it's so important we all spread the word, that the Farm Bill isn't just for farmers, it impacts all of us. And Congress needs to do the right thing.
Please send a letter to the editor now, to get our message through.
These letters are just one part of a long term plan to reform the Farm Bill. Earlier this year I had a chance to write many of you who live in districts with representatives in Congress who serve on the House or Senate Agricultural Committee. Now that the bill is going before the full House of Representatives, every American has a chance to take action. Then as the bill moves forward, I'll be writing again to keep up the pressure where it matters most.
I hope that you will join me in this important effort.
Thank you,
Kenneth Galloway, ONE member
P.S. We've had two great victories recently, ONE Vote '08 was endorsed by two major newspapers, the Las Vegas Sun (NV) and the Trenton Times (NJ).
Roark2007-07-14 02:30:40
Perhaps I am a bit pessimistic. I usually have a dim view of humanity, and I think peaceful regions are historical exceptions. Even in the US, you see it on a small scale in places like Detroit, Cincinnati, and where I live in Cleveland as measured by the amount of murders and other violent crimes. Historically you see it on a larger scale in the Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Franco, Japanese occupation of China in WW-II, Spanish Inquisition, Vikings, Roman Gladiators, Mayan/Aztec human sacrifices, African cannibalism, genocides documented and praised in the Bible, the Homeric epics of the Trojan War, etc. Perhaps there are not many examples of Darfur happening in recent decades, but in teh context of overall savage human history in its entirety, it will probably be a footnote. Go see "Apocalypto" to get a feel for my view of typical man freed from societal pressure to behave himself.
I also don't think it's fair to blame it on food and the West not exporting food to Africa. What did the Sudanese eat before the West had a global economy? That's a fairly recent historical phenemenon. Just because the West+Japan develops a global economy and could export things to Africa that previously were impossible to export doesn't mean that everything is to be blamed on that since those problems either did or did not exist before such exporting was possible. If the problems existed before then it's due to something else that existed before the global economy could make exporting possible; if the problems did not exist before, well the worst thing not exporting would do is leave conditions the same as they were before! Etheopia once had a starvation problem. (And maybe they still do; I'm just recalling the TV ads from the 1980s.) I don't believe the Ethiopeans ethnic-cleansed each other over food.
For unrest over oil companies digging on land they don't own, you can blame that on the corrupt government for stealing the land and giving it to the oil companies. It's exactly like if the Mafia kicks you out of the house you own and live in, and then rents it to wealthy tourists. Blame the mafia that's calling the shots, not the rich tourists. The tourists/oil company can be kicked out the moment the mafia/government finds someone else more lucrative to get in bed with. They hold ultimate control and responsibility.
I also don't think it's fair to blame it on food and the West not exporting food to Africa. What did the Sudanese eat before the West had a global economy? That's a fairly recent historical phenemenon. Just because the West+Japan develops a global economy and could export things to Africa that previously were impossible to export doesn't mean that everything is to be blamed on that since those problems either did or did not exist before such exporting was possible. If the problems existed before then it's due to something else that existed before the global economy could make exporting possible; if the problems did not exist before, well the worst thing not exporting would do is leave conditions the same as they were before! Etheopia once had a starvation problem. (And maybe they still do; I'm just recalling the TV ads from the 1980s.) I don't believe the Ethiopeans ethnic-cleansed each other over food.
For unrest over oil companies digging on land they don't own, you can blame that on the corrupt government for stealing the land and giving it to the oil companies. It's exactly like if the Mafia kicks you out of the house you own and live in, and then rents it to wealthy tourists. Blame the mafia that's calling the shots, not the rich tourists. The tourists/oil company can be kicked out the moment the mafia/government finds someone else more lucrative to get in bed with. They hold ultimate control and responsibility.
Hazar2007-07-14 04:15:02
Oh, don't go thinking I like the Khartoum clique. They're utterly reprehensible. But they can be because of the mess the West left behind.
Daganev2008-11-06 02:20:57
Hi,
A few months ago, Barack Obama pledged to bring peace to Darfur with "unstinting resolve."
With that promise, we have a tremendous opportunity to take a giant step on the road to peace in Darfur. But we need to make sure Barack Obama keeps his promise and makes Darfur a priority from Day One of the next administration.
That's why I just joined one million other voices for Darfur and sent a postcard to the next President of the United States, demanding that he act.
Will you add your voice to mine?
http://action.savedarfur.org/campaign/addyourvoice
Thanks so much for standing with me and helping bring peace to Darfur.
A few months ago, Barack Obama pledged to bring peace to Darfur with "unstinting resolve."
With that promise, we have a tremendous opportunity to take a giant step on the road to peace in Darfur. But we need to make sure Barack Obama keeps his promise and makes Darfur a priority from Day One of the next administration.
That's why I just joined one million other voices for Darfur and sent a postcard to the next President of the United States, demanding that he act.
Will you add your voice to mine?
http://action.savedarfur.org/campaign/addyourvoice
Thanks so much for standing with me and helping bring peace to Darfur.
Xavius2008-11-06 03:11:40
QUOTE(daganev @ Nov 5 2008, 08:20 PM) 579677
Hi,
A few months ago, Barack Obama pledged to bring peace to Darfur with "unstinting resolve."
With that promise, we have a tremendous opportunity to take a giant step on the road to peace in Darfur. But we need to make sure Barack Obama keeps his promise and makes Darfur a priority from Day One of the next administration.
That's why I just joined one million other voices for Darfur and sent a postcard to the next President of the United States, demanding that he act.
Will you add your voice to mine?
http://action.savedarfur.org/campaign/addyourvoice
Thanks so much for standing with me and helping bring peace to Darfur.
A few months ago, Barack Obama pledged to bring peace to Darfur with "unstinting resolve."
With that promise, we have a tremendous opportunity to take a giant step on the road to peace in Darfur. But we need to make sure Barack Obama keeps his promise and makes Darfur a priority from Day One of the next administration.
That's why I just joined one million other voices for Darfur and sent a postcard to the next President of the United States, demanding that he act.
Will you add your voice to mine?
http://action.savedarfur.org/campaign/addyourvoice
Thanks so much for standing with me and helping bring peace to Darfur.
Did you seriously just use a canned response from a website?
Diamondais2008-11-06 03:17:17
QUOTE(Xavius @ Nov 5 2008, 10:11 PM) 579697
Did you seriously just use a canned response from a website?
Definitely seems so.
Daganev2008-11-06 07:01:11
QUOTE(Xavius @ Nov 5 2008, 07:11 PM) 579697
Did you seriously just use a canned response from a website?
Yes. (except it was from an email, not a website, but same difference)
I got an email, I signed the card (clicked the link), and I forwarded it on.
Isn't it wonderfull how easy it is help out these types of orginizations?