To those who don't thunderclap yet and died by it, it's called lame, for guys/girls who can, it's smart.

Actually, that'll just be the last resort you'll do if things get pretty messed up

Um... hardly anyone from Celest helps Serenwilde. Same for them helping us. A few do... but thats a really crappy defense for raiding when no one's around. Just admit you raided when no one was about, and be done with it.

Actually, on quite a few raids against Celest Laysus, Narsrim, Folkien, Aerenna, Munsia all come, any raid I've done against Seren Celest has ALWAYS helped. Hell I attacked someone alone on Faethorn once and all of Celest came up to help Seren(atleast 10 people). Eitherway though you can deny helping each other all you want, despite proving the opposite all the time.

You mean how Ashteru and Borca never defend Nil?

Actually I just visit nowadays and look how it stands. I need to pass some guildtest, so I can't really help Mag anymore. >.<

Heh thing is if ash and borca get caught defending they will get into trouble, celest and serenwilde help each other willingly and constantly. Glomdoring helps mag once in a blue moon then get into trouble for it, for example take iblis who was kicked out of glomdoring for raiding with mags.

Narsrim and Folken are Terentians, and are bound to defend Celestia, nothing else. I dunno about Narsrim, but Folken won't defend Celest's villages when they get raided, nor will he help in Inner Sea battles and other random things on the Prime Plane (barring Magnagorans running around being a general threat to Celest and Serenwilde collectively, in which case they need to be put down).
Any other Serens who get involved tend to have a problem with the raiders themselves. IE Folken hates Torak, Kaervas, and all the uppity Mag youngsters, and will go out of his way to get into battle with these people, regardless of the circumstances.
The Serenwilde as a whole shows no outward affection for Celest, it's just a couple of us who have outside duties or grudges that need leveling.

Its not true, we dont like each other anymore. From few weaks now we dont help each other, except few individuals, i wouldnt really count them.

But i can asure you that most of Celest wouldne ask Serens for help to defend. Ekard would ask only Diamante and Soll for help but they arent in Seren anymore.

Its much closer to war then ally and closer to fight each other then helping defending each other.

Stop pointing something that happened a month ago. Celestwilde or whatever you want to call it, isnt anymore.

I wouldnt even go to Serens if not refills that i need for shop, but Ekard thinks that trade is above politics so he would as well buy from Magnagorans or Gloms if they would be willing to sell wares that he need.

Glomdoring, change your policy and your alchemist, herbalist and other trademaster could see some new gold income, heh.

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And as far for raiding, i agree that raids are fast attacks and fast withdraw. But right now it really hard to actually raid. You need to haev great adventage to raid, so its no longer raid, its an invasion or open battle if forces are equal more or less.

Raiding should be a little easier, but if defenders will come then it should be hell for you.

Not to mention that hange could take away some boredroom. Do you remeber raids that happened earlier in game, game was much more attractive and less boring back then. Making that you can onglutiante in your territory was great idea, so defenders can try to defend even if they donbt have a chance against much better opponent. I remeber when people in Celest were sitting by Pool in number like 10-20 and Daevos was freely killing kinspeople in city. If they wouldnt afraid of death they would easly could take him down. But no, they didnt want to risk against big bad Daevos.

So in Summary:

1- Raids, not open battles, should be easier, then as it is now. Right now those are in most cases suicidal runs.

2- Quick raids should happen more often. Hit, achieve your goal and run before defenders come to you.

Implying that while it's okay to raid (say) Celestia because there are Seren on and they might defend it is somehow LESS okay to attack Nil when no Magnagorans are on is an incredibly weak position. It's exactly the same thing and you know it. Whether it's such a bad thing or not is another matter entirely, but don't try to duck out of it when someone points out you've been doing it in response to your posts by using such an awful excuse as that.

Sure. And all you guys have to do as a whole is say, "Okay, Glomdoring's not tainted any more, so we don't have any reason to want to raze their home."

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. We're kind of stumped on an IC way to discuss that any more than we already have.

Well to be fair there are a number of celest folk who will say glomdoring is as tainted as serenwilde is but just the vast majority are still pulling the old "Hajamin said it was tainted to it is end of discussion,"

Yes most of Celest see Glomdoring as some kind of tainted. But name how often do we fight each other, we more ignore you then 'want to raze your home', Magnagora and their direct supporting of taint is our main enemy and as Glomdoring isnt attacking us i doubt it will be us who will strike first. We didnt had many conflicts in past unlike with Serenwilde, when we had some kind of aliance but they also backstabed us few times, and citizens still remeber that, thats why we arent on such friendly terms as most of you think.

I can almoust feel conflict in the air, almoust.

As you said though celest still thinks of glomdoring as tainted though, while that lasts celest wont trade with glomdoring and celest's goal will be to kill glomdoring. The ball is in celests court really they have to decide glomdoring isnt tainted first before celest can even think of having anything but the current hostile attitude to glomdoring.

Nonsense.

Daganev had a long conversation with Anisu (yes I know he doesn't count) and basically I only asked questions, never made many assertions. Our conversation isn't over, but there are ways of disgussing things with people that don't lead to more arguments.

That might be true, but did you cover any new ground, or make any progress in the relations between the Glomdoring and New Celest? I think that's what Xenthos is talking about - political discussions, not just private ones.

The discussion is stuck at "Hajamin said glomdoring is tainted,"

I'd just like to point out, that the other day when Celestia was being raided, there were people trying to recruit help on Serenwilde CT.

My ass you guys don't help eachother.

I don't believe any fighters with any balls, or any RP reasoning for helping Celest have ever tried to drag anyone else in, unless a druid was needed to remove taint, an artist to take down statues, etc.
But maybe I have a horribly selective memory. Who knows.

I don't know much about the higher-ups, but the lowbie Celestians I've interacted with all categorically classify Glomdoring as Tainted, and don't deal with me.

Actaully hazar the lowbies are more likely to consider glomdoring as not tainted because they havn't heard hajamin say its tainted, its the older higher up who are using the "Hajamin said it is tainted," arguement to keep the situation as it is.