I'm pretty sure you'd take a different stand if Serenwilde didn't have a rezz skill at all.

Meh, when I played, I was resurgemed when I died perhaps 5% of the time. The only time I'd need it is if I died while bashing to the things I was bashing. I mostly conglutinated or vitaed instead. Dying to a player (like Murphy ) meant that if I didn't vitae/conglut, my corpse would be eaten/fossilized/offered LONG before the Wilde could get five people together for a Coven.

Sure, during extended raids and wars, it was amazingly nice, but we hadn't really had much of that lately. When you're randomly jumped by someone who can instantly destroy your corpse (which is now just about everyone who isn't a Seren), resurgem doesn't really help. When you die while bashing, that's your fault, death while bashing is easy enough to avoid, either through being careful or having vitae


I'm not saying that Resurgem is underpowered or anything absurd like that, it's an amazingly useful skill during raids and wars. I just don't see it as being as useful for bashers and targets of random jumpings like non-serens seem to say it is in this thread. Sacrifice and Transmigrate are great in all situations, and to a lesser extent, Lich, but Resurgem does have more drawbacks in my eyes. When I led Resurgem Coven, I said, "No corpse, sorry, we were too slow," at least as often as actually resurgeming the target.

See, I have a hard time believing arguments based on the experience of a single player, when I have information regarding the general behaviour of larger groups. Personal examples, or examples about individuals really don't hold much water.

As far as I can tell, the more ways you have to minimize XP loss the more likely you are to be in a community that is agressive.

If you want a community to act agressiviely, you aleviate the cost of of being agressive, and if you want a community to act defensively, you elevate the cost of being defensive.

Is Glomdoring suppose to be agressive, like its HELP FILES say, or is it suppose to be defensive, like its skillsets say?



Nobody is talking about, or careing about one on one fights in this thread...

We (or atleast my intent of starting the thread) was about general behaviour of groups. (which happen to be made up of individuals) and how having access to certain types of skills elicit certain types of behavior.

I'm confused by your classification. Do you mean 'alleviate' or 'elevate'? Those two mean very different things. I agree that for a city like Magnagora (aptly named the War Engine) abilities like Lichdom greatly 'alleviate' the cost of raiding or fighting. But how does 'elevating' the cost of being defensive benefit a community that is supposed to act defensively. It's supposed to be more costly for me to defend my commune if I'm in a defensive community?

Neither you or tsuki are above average combatants icarus and diamante are very good combatants. I would take their word over yours about a combat based skill. I would say they can tell us about resurgem in combat situations much better than you can but thats just my personal view on the matter I see them as far more experienced that you.



Thats whats everyones been saying about resurgem it may not res you every time but it can res you quite a few times, even getting resed a few times saves you massive ammounts of time.

This is not balanced.

Again glomdoring has to work much harder than any other organisation to keep its exp, this is not balanced and seriously wesmin if you cant post without thinking about game balance then dont post at all.

------------------------------
Glomdoring loses the most exp out of any organisation due to not having a res skill.

Glomdoring must either fight less or bash more than any other organisation to keep their exp balanced with others.

This is not balanced in anyway.
------------------------------

Let's not forget the geomancers. And tracker Serenguard (if they exist anymore).

But yes, although I find your fondness for hyperbole distracting, it is unfair that Glomdoring does not have a resurrection skill.

I would say the people who know the most about resurgem are the people who stand in resurgem covens actually using the skill. You wouldn't go and ask the baker how to change the spark plugs in your car, just because he drives a car everyday to work, or ask your mechanic on how to bake bread just because he eats sandwiches everyday.

Fighters who may or may not have ever been resurgemed in combat situations may know that it was useful to them at the time. The people who actually utilise the skill will know how useful it is on a much larger scale as they will know how many people typically get ressurected. However, you can ignore the people who have the most knowledge of the skill if you wish. Carry on.

I remember being in resurgem covens, once upon a time. I remember it being a great way that a young little Serenguard without much of any other skills could assist his home. I also remember it being *extremely* effective if it was pre-formed for any kind of action with a trigger to automatically resurgem the raider(s), since it generally nabbed the corpse before the enemies regained balance/eq to destroy the corpse. It was ALSO used frequently whenever someone died to an NPC-- "X dead to (rockeater|moose|ooze|whatever), forming a resurgem coven at Mother."

Maybe with fewer people now in the Serenwilde, those days are no longer here. However, should Serenwilde pick up more numbers, I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn't go back to being able to call up a resurgem coven on the drop of a hat. It may not work to call up a coven for someone who has been *jumped*, but generally someone who has been jumped will just vitae anyways (Serenwilde doesn't generally fight those who can Inquisition). If someone raids without forming up a coven first, well...

This is probably one of the first valid posts I have seen on the Glomdoring side so far in this thread. However, there are a couple things. You said "you remember" This is what both Wesmin and Tsuki were trying to point out, that what is remembered from how things used to be, are not the same as how things are now. Death messages were changed making triggered resurgems a lot harder, fewer members for resurgem covens making them harder to organise in a pinch.

The point about the bashing resurgems is very valid, but the basis of this thread has been geared towards combat and how you need a ress skill in order to partake in combat. I find that statement to be false, myself. Most combat takes place in situations where vitae/conglutinate are predominant. Will a ress skill seriously make Glomdoring start raiding places on Prime that those with ress skills don't even bother raiding unless they are almost assured of victory?

Wesmin and Tsuki merely pointed out from their first hand experience with resurgem covens how little they actually matter in most combat situations. If their knowledge is discounted because they are not fighters, then you are merely saying "You don't agree with me so your opinion is pointless."

Anyways, this is my opinion as an observer to this thread. It in no way reflects what may or may not happen in Glomdoring, regarding skills.

Why do I even try?


Terenes, I ment "aleviate" for both words... odd that I wrote elevate.

I guess Glomdoring is just forever to be the community who's help files say one thing, and who's actions reflect the opposite.

I do not know a SINGLE person who has argued this point. You are missing the point COMPLETELY!


Lets say this again... The lack of a rezz skill -actively discourages- AGGRESSIVE behavior. It does not hinder combat, it does not make someone autoumatically, unable to become a Titan. It does make the community more Defensive than Offensive.

Glomdoring, according to the ingame material given to new players by the game itself, has a mission of "taking over the basin" and being a forest of "no mercy" to its enemies. In reality, Glomdoring does not attempt either of those. (well the no mercy is there, but not on any level that the enemies can feel)

Triggers:
^(.*) has been
^(.*) has died
Value for each:
moondance resurgem %1 (or whatever the syntax is)

Only enable these when you're in a coven, and it should cover any death message I've got in my buffer. True, it's two now instead of one, but... it really shouldn't be all that difficult. :/

Focusing on resurgem completely misses the point of this thread.. oh well.


I would be perefectly happy with the responce that Glomdoring is suppose to contradict itself, then things would make sense. But normally, thats not the case.

Daganev






Ferlas


That's just in page one. This thread has been geared towards combat and you are the one who set that standard in the thread. Unless, I have some strange disorder where "aiding raiders/attackers" means non combat.

Glomdoring can RP whatever it wants. Trying to argue that the lack of a ress skill means your RP is somehow hindered is baseless.

This is getting so fustrating....


Is Defending your home, and raiding the same thing? No.

Are they both combat? Yes.

Can you be involved in combat when it comes to you, but not seek combat? Yes.

People who want to "fight more" means that they want to be involved in more fights than are currently happening. It does not mean that the fights they are involved in are defecient in any shape or form.


As for your last comment... Sure, I can RP that I am a god, and have taken over the entire basin... however thats not going to mean I did.

However, if I kill everybody, and take over the basin and somehow become a god, then does it realy matter what my RP is?

When it comes to combat, you can only RP so much before game mechanics get in your way.


I made a similar but unrelated comment, about Envoys.. if Envoy was a complelty IC job possition, One could easily RP that they know everything about combat, but when they go to turn in the envoy report, they'll just get laughed at, and wouldn't actually be doing an Envoy's job.

I remember the one time I ever raided Glomdoring (and died) back when I was trying to get pieces of the dwarven crown (I'll not rant about pieces of neutral quests being in Glomdoring, I've done that enough already). I died and had to pray, even though a coven was set up less than a minute after I died. Glad we have resurgem so Serenwilders never have to pray

I'm not saying Resurgem isn't useful, I'm just saying that it isn't the uber failsafe thing Glomdorians keep saying it is. I personally think Glomdorians should get an equally useful skill with equally annoying restrictions, and that at least one Seren guild should get a corpse destroying skill like Glom now has.

That'll stop the whining.

At the time, if you had gotten the resurgem coven set up BEFORE you entered the Glomdoring, you would have had no issue whatsoever. The only way to destroy your corpse was to run it to a Shrine or the Ravenwood... and even now, a get corpse;eat corpse is slower than just a moondance resurgem %1, if both are triggered.

As I said earlier, if you're raiding and you DON'T get a resurgem coven set up beforehand... well... you should kind of know what to expect.

It was actually at a time when there weren't many people around. There weren't five Moon users on when I started that leg of the raid.

Completely missing the point.

But Shorlen, after that happened, how many more times did you enter Glomdoring and raid again? (yes I read your post, just making a point)

Zero, Narsrim got the item before I had the chance to go back, and it was the only reason I was raiding. Well, that and the fact that it was impossible to negotiate with Glomdoring at all, leaving us no choice BUT to raid.