I haven't read this entire thread, but I simply will say that I would rather not see every city and commune have a ressurection skill simply because I think it is in Lusternia's overall best interests to have some diversity in their skills spread throughout the different player organizations, both for mechanical reasons as well as RP reasons.

I note that Magnagora doesn't have a resurrection skill, yet they seem to do fine. (Don't give me lich, as it doesn't help geomancers--and I haven't heard them raging about it. Indeed, transmigration is open to some Glomdoring members, exactly the same as lich is to some Magnagora citizens.)

I really don't buy that Glomdoring is imbalanced because they don't have a resurrect skill. Frankly, I think it is a silly argument, and strikes me as sour grapes. (Or at least a case of the grass looking greener as resurgem isn't all that.)

How about some ideas that aren't clones of resurrection skills or alternate methods of resurrection, but rather are creative ideas that could settle within Glomdoring's culture as uniquely its own.

If glomdoring doesn't get a ressurection skill they better be overpowered in offense or defense then.. Because if you get to lose little to no experience from dying as a Celestian, you shouldn't die at all in glomdoring.. The goal is balance isn't it?

Actually, I think you're misevaluating some things there. Magnagora does have a resurrection skill: lich doesn't help Geomancers, but it helps the OTHER 2/3 of the city who fight actively. This is a much larger proportion of people than in Glomdoring, because only one class out of three can get transmigrate, and not all of them even choose ecology. So we'll call that 1/6, if we assume that the distribution between dreamweaving and ecology is half and half. Magnagora therefore DOES have a large advantage over Glomdoring with lich there, because it's so demoralising to lose levels and stuff so much for fighting (and one prayer can take -ages- to recover from, particularly if you're not a particularly active hunter). So does Serenwilde and Celest.
Diversity is all well and good, but I think having a resurrection skill (lich, sacrifice/resurrect and resurgem) is an ability that Glomdoring has no real counterpart to, putting them at a slight disadvantage.

How does that last little correlation make sense, Shryke?

You can have balance without being the same.

If you read the rest of the thread geomancers and lich are brought up.

Lich is an exp prevention loss skill, thats what glom is asking for an exp loss prevention skill like lich sacrafice or resurgem.

People have already said geomancers could do with the same as well.

I agree with diversity though which is why people have suggested quite a few different types of glomdoring reses.

EDIT: Erm wasnt a very unique and special skill to prevent exp loss suggested and turned down in the envoys?

You miss the point.
Not everyone is meant to have an EXP loss prevention skill. If they were, they would have one.

Everyone has EXP loss prevention available to them in various manners as it is. You chooosing to use them or not is entirely up to you. However, not every org was meant to have a "ressurect-esque" skill and not every org has one, just as not every org was meant to have a corpse destroying skill, and not every org has one.

In case I am not clear enough.

The arguement that you need one for bashing is false.
You can vitae, -everyone- can vitae.
You can conglutinate, -everyone- has access to conglutinate.
You can be immolated -everyone- has access to being immolated.

In the arguement of raiding.

Again you can vitae.
Again you can conglutinate.
Again you can be immolated.

If someone is hell bent on making you pray, having a "ressurect-esque" skill isn't going to save you one bit. So you choose to use what is available or you choose not to, but I don't recall seeing the Lusternia slogan as "Come to Lusternia where you will never have to pray."

So exp loss is not ment to be balanced then?

Playing devil's advocate (not that Estarra is the devil, mind!)... look at humans. Experience loss/gain is different for different characters.

I still think that Glomdoring should have -something- that helps at death, particularly because they could take advantage of their heavy pro-death/undeath themes, though.

Edit: Note I don't actually like experience loss/gain being different for different characters, and I'm not supporting it... I just thought I'd point it out.

Exp loss is balanced. You die you lose experience. Plain and simple.

Fair enough, I cant say I like the fact that exp loss isnt ment to be balanced but if thats how the game is ment to work and they dont want to change it :shrug:



Not when you count resurections as well.

Exp loss is not balanced.

Ok , since we're disavantaged in the exp loss prevention area, lets look at how we are advantaged.

Coven Combine your magics with others.
Garb Cover yourself in the shadows of Mother Night.
(Gives magic resistance, same as moondance aura, kinda decent)

Penumbra Beauty pleases Mother Night.
(nice charisma boost, unfortunately charisma is the easiest to boost stat in the game so it's not quite that great)

Cauldron Manipulate the shadows with your cauldron.
(another fun rp skill. Not only do our abilities cost power, but they cost shadows-which cost a LOT of power if your not trans! how fun)

Flight Escape into the night as deep as you desire.
(very cool escape skill, however fairly easily stopped and where you go is random, may place you farther into trouble, probably the saving grace of Night)

Cone Raise a cone of power to send energy to your commune nexus.
(standard guardian/wiccan ability, cool but not viable with astral.)

Scourge Teach others the terrors of the darkness.
(Gives.......BLINDNESS how cool, utterly worthless ability considering myrtle)

Gloomtide Hide yourself from allies and enemies alike.
(a fun rp ability, not practical in or out of combat for the most part)

Brumetower Raise the Tower of Darkness at your whim.
(actually a fairly decent skill, however not mobile whatsoever)

Steal The ultimate theft, steal the shadows of your enemies.
(adds 10% damage for one person, fairly cool)

Succumb Force your enemies to succumb to the power of Mother Night.
(actually an amazing skill for shadowdancers who are not fighting people with trans magic, terrible mana drain otherwise and useless for warriors)

Longnight Woe be to the land that falls under night's long shadow.
(think it's been attempted-once. Hurts you just as much as your opponents, takes 13 people who use night, rarely are there 13 people logged in glomdoring entirely.)

Choke Beware the shadows of the night! Beware!
Another cool skill for a wiccan, as a warrior against anything but a warrior total suicide, and not even that great against warriors. Also not mobile whatsoever.)

Bonds Shadows will bind the travelling magics.
(A very good skill in my opinion, again suffers in mobility due to needing shadows released.)

Conclave As coven leader, call a conclave of the coven.
(standard coven skill, nothing too hot)

Terror None can escape the terror of Mother Night's wrath!
(previously we could blind from afar, and nightkiss was stopped by holding breath. Now we can....drain mana from afar! and nightkiss does less damage

Nightkiss Walk proud with the Kiss of Night upon your brow.
(Nights best ability, 10% damage reduction and weapon aura, plus nightkiss ability (good for mobs, terrible for pvp)


I wont go into crow, it's much worse than night as a skillset. In general (compared with necromancy, moon/stag, and sacraments) glomdoring's totem specializations are much, much worse, lacking in both offense and defense in comparison to other skills.




Where is my edge?

Rhoan.. that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day =/

Where is your envoy?

If Night and Crow are useless they should be fixed - with or without a resurrection skill. I thought after the last round of envoy reports (before this one?) they were significantly improved?

No night was downgraded in the last envoys avaer.

Our damage was nerfed by a good 20-30% weakening one on one fights and covens.

Although I find it -phenomenally- hard to believe you are looking at this objectively or rationally, what did you suggest to your envoys about improving Night and Crow? Did you explain to them how both skillsets were so terrible and give some suggestions for what needed to be done?

problem is, there is no administration in the world that would dare listen to "to be honest a lot of these skills are basically entirely roleplay ,and for the most part suck. Maybe we can scrap the bad ones and come up with a new list of abilities that are actually applicable in combat?"

Yes, we could upgrade some things in the abilities, however the entire skillset needs revamping, and that simply won't happen.

I was informed a exp prevention skill was envoyed but that was rejected because of the blanket no given to giving glomdoring a res skill, Im not an envoy so this is just second hand information.

As I said I didnt realise that exp loss was not ment to be balanced, I personally would prefer it if exp loss was balanced in the game but if the admin have decided that isnt to be the case then :shrug:

Well, I suppose complaining is easier than trying to do something about it.

No avaer if you read what I said something was done about it.

Incorrect.

- Celestians die, they have a great chance of not having to pray.

- Serenwilders die (with the exception of Trackers), they have some chance of not having to pray.

- Magnagorans die (with the exception of Geomancers and Trackers), they have some chance of not having to pray.

- Glomdorians die (with the exception of Trans ecologists), they have to pray.

Hence, the imbalance, which in turn affects how Glomdorians act in general. Especially those who have attained higher levels.