As for the skills you mentioned and I didn't quote, I could argue each one and explain its use in defense of the commune, and in giving members of GLomdoring ways to level without leaving the forest, but that would be overkill.


It is not the "current" government that I think would be reflected by the change, its all governments past and present and most likely future (save some major change). The ideals and ideas that Glomdoring currently holds, I believe, is complex enough and confusing enough to give people a strong drive for years to come. It doesn't need to be bent on world domination. (as that goal seems to fustrate players more than it pushes them to do more.) Also, the reason why I'm bringing this up, is because I am getting fustrated by players who are constatnly complaining about our skills, and saying how evil the admin are for not realizing Glomdoring's plight and fixing the issue. And I believe, the issue stems from stated RP goals not jiving with skillsets.

Nobody complains when the Bards arn't good enough in combat, but they tend to complain when the bards are so good at combat, that they lose internal RP.

I find those arguments less compelling than the ones which say they are most useful for interacting outside the Glomdoring. That's ok though, because we're both right. The skills themselves DON'T tell us whether Glomdoring is intended to ignore the rest of the playerbase or not.

Just do your own RP without regarding the help files/history/whatever. They don't need to change.

WAFFLES!!!

Does the -rest- of Glomdoring want it changed?

Again, you appear to be completely missing my whole point.

But I'm going to stop talking about this because apparently the words "incentive" and "more likely" are lost on people.





Again, missing the point.



Personally, I dont want the HELP FILE changed, I want the skills changed.

So.. why did you make a thread if talking about the main topic of the thread is 'missing the point' and you yourself don't even want what you stated as the main topic of this thread; nor do you want imput from other Glomdoring members, which you also asked for in your first posting...

Am I missing something here besides Daganev's "point"?

They could do with a bit of an update really. I know what you mean they could be misleading to new players who join and don't get what they are expecting.

Hey! I wrote Help Glomdoring! took me quite a while too! why change it? it's peeeerty

The fact that you wrote it totally shatters Elryn's argument, actually, heh.

If it was written by a mortal, then it definitely wasn't the "designated RP", it was just something that someone (who ended up throwing a hissy fit because Crow wanted a feast in his honor, btw) thought looked pretty. Narses didn't have a grip on what Glomdoring actually was, which is why he ended up eventually leaving after said fit. Because Glomdoring wasn't what he thought it was.

Now, i'm not saying it should be changed, I'm more playing Devil's Advocate, but if it was written by a mortal, then the idea that Daganev is trying to change Divine-decreed RP is actually wrong. A mortal (who wasn't in a leadership position) is the one who wrote the "designated RP".. shouldn't the actual leaders now have that oppurtunity, that Glomdoring has gotten its feet and identity established?

I have to agree and disagree on that point.

to begine with: Narses I believe had a very firm grasp of how Crow was, according to the teachings of the Blacktalon as they were written down at the time. Quotes of Viravain and the like. He just found it appalling that Brennan called him unfaithful because he couldn't dorn Crow-form... sorry, can't efford the credits. All in all, they took all the teachings and threw them down the drain in favour of a very hungry bird.

In retrospect it was I who got annoyed, not Narses. He continued well after that, there were other things that made him go inactive- and there's no need to delve into them.

now, regardless of crow... Glomdoring is what the commune wants it to be. While it is quite possible that I thought the Glomdoring was A while it was B- At the time, it was handed by Etanru and approved by Viravain so honestly, I think it described the concept fairly well- else it would have never been used. I think that it would be a very poor game indeed if we just followed the general settings and didn't try to break through, to change and implement our own ideas.

I was jesting when I went all pouty about changing it, if it is no longer rellevent, than it should be changed. I was simply against the former format which basicly called the forest tainted and described everything as it was from a foreigner's point of view- when in fact, it should reflect the commune's aspects and ideas.

You don't seem to like my characters though, I hope you won't hold it against me

Having spent over an hour beginning my study of Glomdoring's commune posts, and made it to about the time Tenqual was Trade Minister, we held three villages, and Nayl had been Seneschal for a few years, I just want to point out one thing.

As long as Glomdoring doesn't completely throw it's roleplay out the window, Viravain approves those who succeed. There is great deal of room for interpretation of Crow and Night's creeds, and of the teachings of Viravain. What there is not room for is loud, boisterous trumpeting of various interpretations by low-ranked people who don't have patience and subtlety.

Thank you. I have made my point; Glomdoring has, and can again changed it's direction. There's merely established channels you must work through.

I certainly hope you did not just attack me over a perfectly reasonable RP. Narses didn't agree with it, he was Cr4 and GR9, no I don't think it's "that low". He had every right to speak, even if he was CR1 for that matter. You have an issue with it? fine, but using the forums to flame... sorry, I won't pay much attention to it.

You can't force subtlty on people, he spoke to Brennan and Brennan spoke to him, no yells were made nor absured shouts. It was a conversation.

However it does seem like a pattern with Glom, "keep your mouth shut and nod"... that's fine, that's not how Narses works... and if you don't like it, that's fine too... but it was perfectly legitimete for him to speak.

And if I am incorrect in assuming you attempted to lash at me, my apologies... I still have nothing against you regardless.

The 'HELP GLOMDORING' file was already changed once in the past - I don't think any other groups have requested a change even once. It's still accurate, so live with it.

Also, since when does Glomdoring torture Fae? They bind them, yes, though it isn't exactly against their will anymore and there is no real 'torture' performed that I know of.

It's not 'keep your mouth shut and nod' - it's 'keep your mouth shut in public, nod, and argue with me later, in private, respectfully.' I'm not familiar with what exactly you 'spoke' about, so I can't comment on how legitimate or illegitimate it was. But I get sick of hearing people say 'Well, there's no room for differences in Glom', or 'there's only one kind of rp in Glom', or variations of the same. It's simply not true, and it makes me sick.

it was Brennan who spoke, Narses had an argument with him. No commune leader had anything to do with it. The only reason it was public is simple, Brennan is at the Master Ravenwood and showed no inclination to take things "in private".

You keep saying Glom can change, I agree. But telling people that they are loud in such an obnoxious manner ends up proving the exact opposite.

1. I am not making an IC suggestion, so I can't really "ask glomdoring" what it wants.


2. I am asking that the help file, only reflect things that are the intent for Commune always, things that will not Change with changing governments.


I don't think there is anything wrong with what was written in the past, when people had the hopes and ideas that maybe one day we would get a rezz skill, or be able to sustain attacks against other nations on the same level that they can sustain attacks Glomdoring. Since it has been clearly stated now, that that is not the case, it seems to make more sense to change the public Help files.

Glomdoring has changed atleast 4 times that I can think of, and the current RP that Glomdoring has seems to have worked the best for the longest amount of time so far, so I don't suspect its going to change again anytime soon.

And this is the heart of your argument, as you said in the other thread.

You are saying that no resurrection skill = no aggression = locked in isolation RP. I think this is blatantly false. High-level combatants (the ones who are most like to raid) usually have conglutination. So there are few limitations on raiding Faethorn, Etherserenwilde, Elemental, or Cosmic planes. It's already been pointed out that village influence doesn't depend on resurrection skills (assuming you aren't conquest), so controlling these areas on prime won't be affected. That leaves places like the shallach ruins, verasavir valley, and the toscha monastery (if that can be classed as enemy territory). Maybe you do have a slight disadvantage here, but there's also not much reason why you want to control them.

I find nothing wrong with the current helpfile, or with anyone in Glomdoring who wants to 'spread the glory' of their Forest. Trying to make oblique appeals like this won't work. You're not going to get a resurrection skill according to Estarra, I wish it was different, but that's what has already been said.


No it doesn't. If Daganev writes a new one, hell, if I write a new one... its just something that a mortal with no grip on Glomdoring's RP thought looked pretty. The same arguments could be presented in a months time that a new Glomdoring player should rewrite it again since it no longer fits the commune 'vision', on a whim.

The truth is, what was approved by Viravain fits the commune, and the events which led to it including the histories. If you don't want to RP what is in there... then don't! There are lots of people in Serenwilde who love working with citypeople and wouldn't dream of being rude to them. They don't come and argue that we should change the helpfiles to lessen the confusion over their RP.

Fallen, I don't know who your characters are - but you have to have more faith in your ability to RP. For better or worse, Glomdoring has been given many different sources from which players can build their own character's RP. Sometimes these sources don't all give one simple impression, or exactly what we want for our convenience. That doesn't mean we change the world to fit our ideas.

Riiight. Do I need to bring up the bitch-fest you threw for over a month when the Divine dared touch Faeling? I believe you were whinning all over the place because you had RPed a certain way, and they completely ruined it? "Please! Can we not call them faelings! They don't fit the way we've RPed!!!" I believe you begged?

EDIT: Watch your language. ~Shiri~

I hated the change to what was there, and still do. I think it was a poor decision that wasn't in line with what the existing information had pointed to. I referenced histories and helpfiles in my arguments. I still think it would have made more sense to have a dual Elfen specialization, or a separate race, but what is done is done. I'm over it.

You can call me whatever names you like, unfortunately, they don't take the place of logical arguments. Sorry.

Edit: In fact, think of it as a learning experience. Even though I still believe my concept of the race was rooted in the material provided far more so than the 'upgrade', I had to accept that the admin aren't going to cater to my individual RP or individual concerns. You can do the same.