Shryke2006-05-20 15:37:25
Since they took away any possible way to kill in the last warrior envoy , I've been thinking of ways to balance what is a completely useless skillset, and considering my knowledge is mostly about PB's that's what I'm going to talk about.
Please, don't give me advice on how to kill with our current skills, because it's impossible if you are up against a combatant with some skill.
Right now PB's cannot kill with wound afflictions, damage, or instakills, if someone parrys their head and stances their legs we cannot in any way hinder them except for amputates, which are far and few between. Anyway, the only solutions I see are making it necessary to move your parry away from your head. To do that we need heavy & Critical gut & chest afflictions, as well as a jab head wound considering we have none at this point.
For a jab headwound I suggest something like pokeeye, where if they get two poked out eyes they blackout or something (cured by mending?) (Heavy)
For the heavy chest affliction I suggest heartpierce, it will finally make people move their parry of their head and give us something to work with. (Jab)
For a critical chest affliction I am unsure, perhaps some sort of affliction that will slow you down (like aeon) for up to 10 seconds (swing, not on assault) Cured by focus body (called spinal tap or something?)
Heavy gut affliction could be something that causes vomiting (swing)
and critical would be disembowel...
(on a side note it's been suggested that 2 handers give two venom afflictions per attack, which would only seem fair all things considered)
Any suggestions for changes? I'm incredibly frustrated at the fact that the divine completely and ABSOLUTELY nerfed us without any compensation, so I'm posting this here to vent a bit and get some good feedback on the sorts of things I plan to send to my envoy.
Please, don't give me advice on how to kill with our current skills, because it's impossible if you are up against a combatant with some skill.
Right now PB's cannot kill with wound afflictions, damage, or instakills, if someone parrys their head and stances their legs we cannot in any way hinder them except for amputates, which are far and few between. Anyway, the only solutions I see are making it necessary to move your parry away from your head. To do that we need heavy & Critical gut & chest afflictions, as well as a jab head wound considering we have none at this point.
For a jab headwound I suggest something like pokeeye, where if they get two poked out eyes they blackout or something (cured by mending?) (Heavy)
For the heavy chest affliction I suggest heartpierce, it will finally make people move their parry of their head and give us something to work with. (Jab)
For a critical chest affliction I am unsure, perhaps some sort of affliction that will slow you down (like aeon) for up to 10 seconds (swing, not on assault) Cured by focus body (called spinal tap or something?)
Heavy gut affliction could be something that causes vomiting (swing)
and critical would be disembowel...
(on a side note it's been suggested that 2 handers give two venom afflictions per attack, which would only seem fair all things considered)
Any suggestions for changes? I'm incredibly frustrated at the fact that the divine completely and ABSOLUTELY nerfed us without any compensation, so I'm posting this here to vent a bit and get some good feedback on the sorts of things I plan to send to my envoy.
Icarus2006-05-20 15:46:44
I agree that Pureblades and Axelords have been rendered ineffective by the Behead change. However, I believe the envoy reports are not done yet, so I am still hoping.
You've pretty much said where the problems are, that there are no workable wound afflictions to arms, chest and gut.
You've pretty much said where the problems are, that there are no workable wound afflictions to arms, chest and gut.
Hazar2006-05-20 15:58:55
As long as you get viable wounds for the rest of the body, you don't need extra poison afflict. You make up for that with damage.
Icarus2006-05-20 16:13:18
QUOTE(Hazar @ May 20 2006, 11:58 PM) 290002
As long as you get viable wounds for the rest of the body, you don't need extra poison afflict. You make up for that with damage.
Damage for all warrior's specialisations is the same, i.e., with all other factors equal, you don't get hit for more damage from a 400 damage claymore than two 200 damage broadswords.
Shryke2006-05-20 16:16:02
Yeah, poisons are clearly imbalanced for 2 handers, I think allowing two poisons per round is a no-brainer, but that's just me.
Daganev2006-05-20 16:32:26
Isn't there a skill somewhere that forces a person to lose thier parry/stance? or did I have a bad dream again?
Shryke2006-05-20 16:33:40
Cracked elbow, heavy swing affliction on the arms that you have to take both arms out to stop their parrying, it's essentially useless since they would have it cured before you could do the other elbow... Plus it still doesnt stop stancing.
EDIT: Just to lay it out clearly, the fact that it's a swing, easily cured, a heavy affliction, and needs to be done twice to make it effective make it simply useless.
EDIT: Just to lay it out clearly, the fact that it's a swing, easily cured, a heavy affliction, and needs to be done twice to make it effective make it simply useless.
Unknown2006-05-20 16:45:47
I actually don't think that 2handers should get dual poisons, but that's only because I think your swings should carry through 1 body part and have a chance to land a wound on both.
So, if you hack down, and you hit their head, you'd have a chance of landing a wound, and then moving down to land a weaker hit on their chest, with an proportionaly smaller chance of landing a second afflict.
This could bypass parry in the situations where you are hacking up and they have their chest parried and your first hit lands on their gut and the second, weaker shot could still hit their chest, because it was carried through, rather than a brandnew strike.
So, if you hack down, and you hit their head, you'd have a chance of landing a wound, and then moving down to land a weaker hit on their chest, with an proportionaly smaller chance of landing a second afflict.
This could bypass parry in the situations where you are hacking up and they have their chest parried and your first hit lands on their gut and the second, weaker shot could still hit their chest, because it was carried through, rather than a brandnew strike.
Shryke2006-05-20 16:49:34
That would make jabs pointless, but anyway, there's one suggestion, any more out there? Anyone see something too overpowered?
Unknown2006-05-20 16:51:08
QUOTE(Shryke @ May 20 2006, 09:49 AM) 290014
That would make jabs pointless, but anyway, there's one suggestion, any more out there? Anyone see something too overpowered?
Except for the fact that jabs are accurate, and that they give different afflictions.. yeah.. totally pointless.
And aren't jabs already weak for Axelord anyway?
Shryke2006-05-20 16:59:17
Jabs have always been weak for 2 handers, but making it so that swings are more powerful just makes our offense WAY more random, which I think is something we've been trying to steer away from. Basically if they make us balanced for having the ability to hit with two swing affs per attack then jabs will be basically useless so we will have to rely on very difficult to target swings, making our entire offense a lottery.
Unknown2006-05-20 17:02:17
Made give Jabs the same addition? Jab and then a chance to swing at a second body part (for obviously minimal damage and medium wounding)? That woud give the same boost to both jabs and swings, while giving something better than a second poison (which is just as random, really, but potentially less useful)
Daganev2006-05-20 19:17:31
double poisons on jabs... 1 when it goes in, and 1 when you pull it out, and then that swing idea, would be awesome.
Terenas2006-05-21 05:25:10
How the hell can you be complaining when they nerfed Behead for BM as well purely because of 2-handers? Bonecrushers can still Pulp for great wound and Bashbrain while the most a BM can do with his 10 power Haymaker is 4 stupid Slitthroat in a row? If anything the BMs should be complaining. You guys were too powerful with Assault/Sweep and got us downgraded as well.
Shryke2006-05-21 05:31:06
Ummm because BM's can move the parry off the targets head because they have chest and gut wounds like impale and heartpierce? Kthx
Daganev2006-05-21 05:31:52
You should be happy, now your not tempted to waste 10 power on a haymaker... odd its 8 for pulp.
Unknown2006-05-21 05:39:13
Well, as an Axelord (albeit an inexperienced one) I don't like the idea of two-handers becoming the same as one-handers with differently-named weapons, which is what the dual-poison and dual-attack thingy might do. As for upgrades, I'd love a paralysis affliction (maybe requires critical chest, and is cured with applying regeneration to chest, followed by focus body - well, that's overpowered, but something along the lines of that), and swings should be made much more accurate (for the intended body part) when the person is lying prone, since it's kinda hard to miss something when they're on the ground. Although this might be happening already, since I've never been able to get someone prone on a one-on-one fight long enough...
More crippling and meta-curing afflictions would be nice, though unfortunately I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.
And the envoy change, although it might help with balance somewhat, doesn't make much sense - swinging an axe toward a head only chops it off if you're directly hacking down at it?
More crippling and meta-curing afflictions would be nice, though unfortunately I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.
And the envoy change, although it might help with balance somewhat, doesn't make much sense - swinging an axe toward a head only chops it off if you're directly hacking down at it?
Murphy2006-05-21 05:41:01
QUOTE(terenas @ May 21 2006, 03:25 PM) 290197
How the hell can you be complaining when they nerfed Behead for BM as well purely because of 2-handers? Bonecrushers can still Pulp for great wound and Bashbrain while the most a BM can do with his 10 power Haymaker is 4 stupid Slitthroat in a row? If anything the BMs should be complaining. You guys were too powerful with Assault/Sweep and got us downgraded as well.
Dude i'm going to he-bitch man-slap you.
ANY bonecrusher who uses pulp, isn't fighting properly. The ONLY time to EVER use pulp, is when you have your enemy so incapacitated that you can tell them excatly what you're going to do to them, then do it.
I only ever pulped after i told my enemy that i was going to do it.
Shryke2006-05-21 06:52:27
Back on topic.. Suggestions? Is my suggestion over the top? Feedback please.
Diamante2006-05-21 06:57:23
QUOTE(terenas @ May 20 2006, 10:25 PM) 290197
How the hell can you be complaining when they nerfed Behead for BM as well purely because of 2-handers? Bonecrushers can still Pulp for great wound and Bashbrain while the most a BM can do with his 10 power Haymaker is 4 stupid Slitthroat in a row? If anything the BMs should be complaining. You guys were too powerful with Assault/Sweep and got us downgraded as well.
Uhh yeah I have the second best hammers in the game and awesome strength and dex, and I do a whopping 950 wounds to AERENNA, hitting her stomach. Hardly awesome wounds for 8p. Pulp never was and still isn't a great move, but it is a nice style kill. However yes we can bashbrain, Bonecrusher, while their afflictions are fairly decent, are severely limited in their ways to kill. It comes down to soley bashbrains, or against a terrible curer, burstorgans. Blademaster can pinleg with lunges, one of the best afflictions in the game, or bleed out by impaling and rending from one of three target areas.
Bonecrushers come out ahead in early afflicts, blademasters are far superior in the long run.