I've never seen you on Celestia...

And if planar summon gets you while you're raiding... well... you deserve the death. I absolutely prefer being able to sit in guards and use them as needed, as most of the time raiders don't seem to have a problem avoiding them. The only way you can get knocked into guards is if you're careless, or not paying attention to the defenders in adjacent rooms. Getting people into guards is still "dynamic tatics" as you're reacting to your situation as needed and with the biggest chance of success. Previous raids haven't had a problem avoiding being lured to the pool, so I don't think its as huge of a problem as you'd like it to be. Find your own "dynamic tactics" to avoid being lured to certain death.

Le sigh, planar summon isnt the only thing that you can do as has been explained tackle beckon and most especially currents, currents pulls you right to the guards exceptionally easily. The only way as you put it is if you get knocked to the guards is by quite easy and simple tatics. You prefer to sit there and spam summon type macros while the raiders sit there doing nothing?

I don't prefer that and I know a lot of other people dont either, I know a lot of people would prefer to particapate in actual combat during raids as opposed to avoid guards/summon macros.

Well when Celest sits at the pool they have 4 exit/entrance points they can use to get people to their nexus... If you check the Nil map there are only 2 nexus exit/entrance points, both poorly placed since you would have to be an absolute idiot to go all the way down there in the first place... This leaves the Mag's to go out and hunt you and fight you the way it should be. If we were to sit at our nexus all of the imps and demons could be killed without you ever getting close to our nexus. Now when we raid Celestia, we have no choice but to pass by your nexus, several times. Celestians tend to sit at that pool and on a off chance maybe a straggler or someone with some guts leaves it. But from all the Celestia raids I see it ends up with Celests sitting on the guards trying to get the raiders into the guard room to kill them. This tends to get real boring. I mean it is kinda funny to watch them waste all that essence using shrine powers. but even then they dont come out and fight. I think if the guards should be removed. Let the real battles begin.

Oh guards on ethereal? I cannot comment... I am never there except to transverse elemental. I do know those totems are an absolute irritant. But I do like getting hit by them.

In terms of momentum, preparation, and emotional state, raiding favors the attacker. However, raiding should, as a matter of general principle, favor the defender. Removing guards from the outer planes which need to be defended make complete conquest of one of those planes a very real possibility.

Very, very, very bad idea.

barge and charge nolonger work. so those are already solved. Currents is random it can throw you out of the pool aswell, and can throw you in any direction. I think what you people mean is WHIRLPOOL.


Syntax: AQUACAST WHIRLPOOL
This must be cast in a water location. You create a powerful whirlpool around yourself, and anyone in an adjacent water location may be pulled towards you and when trying to leave your location may find themselves unable to swim against the force of
the whirlpool.

Syntax: AQUACAST CURRENTS
Currents may only be invoked within your demesne. All enemies within your watery demesne will be pulled by currents. The further out from the center of the demesne, the greater frequency the currents will hinder your enemies.
(and the center almost always is the pool)

edit: also forgot to mention currents can not toss you into a different area, or atleast it shouldn't.

Wow... why can't Mag have the aquamancers...We have Ladantine... make him teach us those nifty spells Is it me or is whirlpool a slightly watered down renamed "demesne summon"??

you have those stonewalls, which are evil, evil I tell you!, and it's not as effective as the description might make it seem, it's more like a weaker room beckon.

Currents seems to pull you to the center of the demsne as you said
- The further out from the center of the demesne, the greater frequency the currents will hinder your enemies.

Center at the pool let currents hit more frequently pulling you to the pool, or at least that is what I have experienced it doing.

it doesn't pull you towards the center, just tosses you about.

And I got confirmation it doesn't throw you into the pool.

Agreed. I went up solo one night to get some angels through fulcrux... as soon as I walk in woosh I am at the pool and dead. I was like must be some type of wierdo glitch bet it won't happen again... So dumbarse I am I try again... I walk in have time to go ha and woosh I am back at the pool and dead... I really really hate currents.

spring traps

Oh, when you said summon, I thought you meant ... summon. My bad.



Its closer to a limited beckon. Only works in deep water, in your demesne, on enemies, and you can't control when it works.



Um... doesn't that mean the exact opposite of what you said? The pool isn't far from the center, as it *is* the center, so currents would happen least of all near there.

No I have hit those too... these were just plain ol currents, no assembly required, no traps included.


Well still seems like a much better spell than most geo spells.... stonewall is nice... tumble past it.... yer out... current and whirlpool... yer in and with 20 guards to boot... on top of that it seemed like the descript of whirlpool said making you unable to leave... so when I try to leave... *the currents/blah stop you from moving in that direction* will tumble work?? I didn't have enough time to try when that happened since I was taking extreme emotional and physical abuse from the Cavaliers of Light.

essentially as I understand it, you currents to near the pool, where the whirlpool just sucks you in.

And yes I don't think whirlpool should be working from the pool just like it shouldn't be working if I had a meld and we where holding standoff at delport entrance.

I am very confused...

It sounds like the only complaint is the Aquamancers still have demense summon and Geomancers don't. Which is a valid complaint, however your talking about guards on the plane as an issue, which really isn't.

Why no complaints about guards on planes before? *boggle*

Such senseless complaints.

there has always been complaints about Ethereal commune propers accually.

and what demesnesummon? you people are imagining those things a lot more powerfull then they are. I can only imagine it acts like a summon because of the design of Celestia because those things are very very random (albight mighty annoying)

It must have been a recent change then, I was currented into the pool the last time I raided fair enough this was a week or two ago but they must have changed it since then.

Lets go over the concept of statistics. I'll try to make a little diagram.

X-1-2-3-4-5


X is the center of the demense, 1- 5 are rooms that far away from the demense.

Each time Currents hits, it can go either closer or further away from the center. So lets make up some numbers...
When you are in Room X, Currents hits ever 5 seconds.
When you are in Room 1, Currents hits ever 4 seconds.
When you are in Room 2, Currents hits ever 3 seconds.
When you are in Room 3, Currents hits ever 2 seconds.
When you are in Room 4, Currents hits ever 1 second.
When you are in Room 5, Currents hits ever .5 seconds.

The further away you are from the center, the more likely you are to be tossed towards the center over a given period of time. If you are sent away from the center, then you get hit more often, untill you get closer to the center. As you try to run away, it just increases the chances of you getting sent closer. so yes it is techincally random, but over time, it will pull you towards the center, and whirlpool will beckon you exactly to the center.

I belive thats what the skills was designed to do, and it makes sense. However, that has always been the case, guards or no guards. However before, the aquamancer just used Demense summon specifically, since it was more reliable and predictable.

no currents don't toss for a long time, you where like said before likely tossed near the pool and pulled by the whirlpool ina semi-instant way.

My complaint is raids are boring because combat revolves around sitting at guards, the defenders have to do almost no work at all and the raiders cant take the guards so they have to sit there doing nothing. It just isnt fun. the side complaint is ethereals a fortress and cant be raided by groups.



Ah sorry I got the words wrong then, something in an aqua demense pulls you onto guard either way whirlpool or currents Im not sure which is which.