RP says no. Been there, done that.

Archways go buh-bye, Avatars in new, non-org local areas, Hart/Crow areas changed to non-org. Tada!

Please we have been through this before and nearly everyone agreed you can't kill the avatars or the aspects while there are guards around, thats the important thing. The problem is how to do so, the archways are not the problem in anyway they may have to be removed to fix the guard problem or they may have to be changed but they are not the main problem the fact that guards can or do guard the aspects and the avatars is.

RP can be changed, really what sense does giving a non drugged food additive to a creature loyal to some nature spirit to make them turn to that nature spirit's biggest enemy? OOCly none really, enemy fae = bad = must kill easy enough rp .

No, it's...really not. That's the state that we used to have, and it was rejected because it caused undue strain on the RP of both communes.

I like guidos idea that only the communes can peacefully take the fae, the cities must kill the fae to get them.

Actually, Anisu, that makes perfect sense. Make only wild Fae still takable via honeycakes. I mean, the ones in service to night and moon are fulfilling their duty with the nature spirits, and a bit of cake shouldn't be enough to make them forget their duties and scarf it down. Sure they could still be drugged, but the Fae would eventually learn not to accept cakes from strangers, right?

Ta-da. Thanks, Anisu.

partly because of guards, you can even skip the part where you put them in the well and give them directly to the moon/night spirits, then it would be even easier and will be exactly like how the nil/celest conflict works.

Or alternatively we can make giving those cakes take equilibrium/balance which is relatively the same to killing imps since I all one hit kill those anyway.

"Undue strain on the RP of both communities"? Are you kidding me? RP is meant to change, to evolve, to develop. If your argument is that changing RP is too 'stressful' then it's BS. RP = change.

The communes have adaptaed to something like this already, during the time when the cakes didnt work correctly the communes were more than happy to kill night fae, Im sure they can come up with a roleplay reason if they want to again.

Some bits of RP just don't move. What you're suggesting is similar to Celest killing angels for talking.

You know, at this point, I'm close to just posting to the envoys that I was wrong and it shouldn't be changed... simply because there is such a thing as going TOO FAR and that seems to be about all that you guys want to do. Go way too far in an attempt to "balance," never minding the fact that it now will be unbalanced in the *opposite* direction.

I still think it needs to be softened, I do NOT agree with a sledgehammer, nor will I.

Hmm on second thought and roleplay change may be a bad idea, you remember how much people cried the last time an event gave them the opportuntiy to change their roleplay, On second thought don't add in anything that could remotly cause a roleplay change or you will upset a lot of people.



Sorry but whats wrong with the ideas so far? Make ethereal more comparable to cosmic with guards only being able to be placed in a limit of one or two rooms and such like that?

In fact all of my suggestions would leave ethereal raidable but still be at a distinct advantage to the cities and cosmic.

Roleplay can always change, Xavius, and it wouldn't call for something as extreme as your example of Celest killing angels. Xenthos, my suggestions would in no way give the cities an advantage, the communes a disadvantage, or anything else. They would be identical in every possible way to cosmic except with the possibility of converting neutral denizens.

I agree. All the suggestions from the opposing side seems to want to not make raiding Ethereal easier but simply a walk in a park. If that was your intention since the beginning, keeping the Cosmic planes still highly unaccessible to the communes yet making it infinitely easier to raid, you should have simply said so in the first place. You know what, just make the Avatars die the instant someone newbiekick them. It is pointless now.

Exactly guido so far all of the suggestions have still left the communes with a greater advantage than cities. Almost equally balanced but communes would also get the advantage of an unbreakable demense as well.



The suggestions if you care to read them cause ethereal glom/seren to be as accessable as the cosmic planes and to be as raidable as the cosmic planes, and also gives the communes an advantage of an unbreakable demense.

Have you read one ****ing thing I've posted? I don't want the communes to be easier to raid than cosmic is. I've suggested that controlled Fae and Avatars be buffed to be on par with cosmic creatures, and for the archways to be removed to keep everyone out, and for it to be harder (or impossible) for them to be stolen via a quest? How is that a walk in the park?

Cheating again!

We have three pages dedicated to bickering over why it's bad.

We have, on the other hand, very little discussing the merits of removing the archways and making it possible to just walk in.

The one objection that was raised is the difficulty in hitting the Avatars and Aspects--after some thought, I had to agree. To that end, a change was proposed! Rather than simply remove the archways, we would also give the Avatars their own non-org local area (which means no immediate flow, no guards, and no totems) in the back of the plane, much like Crow, Hart, the Supernals, and the Demon Lords have.

Let's give this another go, and discuss the issues with this.

Your ball.

Ferlas, let's just buy some plane tickets and move to Haiti.

Im fine with that, although Im interested in how you want to place them, the areas where the avatars, daughters/ladies and the aspects are to be move to should have no guards, totems etc but their exits and enterances should be guarded but not to the extent that they are harder to get to than cosmic.

I still feel this leaves questions about the fae, why are fae more well guarded than the cherubs and such?

No one has suggested or come up with a feasable way to make it balanced and take them away from where they are currently, Where would you place the enterance? It must be accessable, you can not place it deep into ether glom/seren like the current aspect enterance are. The enterance should be guarded but it should also be accessable for a group to get to some how.