And your suggestions do nothing to address the impracticality of the Communes raiding the Cosmic Planes back, simply because it is unfeasible to do so. I'm sorry, this is what it boils down to. You want the cities to be able to strike at where the Communes hurt the most, the Avatars, and an easier way of doing so. However, if the Communes attempt to retaliate by doing the same to the cities it will be much harder due to the various reasons mentioned before. Let's also not forget the cities control the simplest method of travelling to Astral, the best hunting ground for experience, karma, and essence.

I'm hesistant to see any of your suggestions as anything but 'imbalance' when you do nothing to address the possible implications your suggestions will bring about. The Ethereal Plane does not equal the Cosmic Planes, stop trying to suggest changes that will bring this about. If the admins had wanted to make these planes and the communes completely equivalent to the cities, they would have already done so.

Fae are better guarded because they are taken by the instant quest. I'm actually just fine with not being able to hear them cry for help if the defenders are going to earn their stripes getting to most of them.

Placement for the Avatars...er, well, I say three entrances where each of the Avatars used to be (to keep the cost of defending them high--the big balancing factor here) that all lead to different rooms of the other local area (one area for all three, but three ways in, and three ways out). Just ENTER CROWN, TOUCH GEM, or whatever to go up.

I would be all up for a new area, but currently no one has come up with a good idea to implement it where as people have come up with good idea that may be pretty simple admitdly will balance it and make it as secure and as raidable as cosmic.



That seems a bit to simple and like the current system, you can very easily if you want super defend that enterance with as many guards as you want. To hard to get a group there.

Think about balance, you want to make it as accessable as cosmic, which means you should be able to get to it bypassing two or so rooms of guards and no totems or statues

There is no equilibrium cost involved in getting to them or through them, whereas the cosmic entrances have the transverse time. And really, since we're talking about Ethereal here, you can get one person in, then teleport or tesseract from either Prime or elemental to get the rest up.

EDIT: And in response to your edit, it would be just like getting around the guards in a village, since you don't have to meet any of them at any particular place.

There is, you suggested you place the enterance sigils where the avatars are currently located? that means crossing a good number of rooms, totems and guards to arrive at a room that can have a totem and can have a lot of guards.

guards cost power. You can't have an infinite number.

Also, Climb up/fly, move to the location, d/land;touch gem

And you won't be touched most likely.

One person just wont make it, he will be cut down instantly.

Yes, you would be arriving at a room that has a totem and guards. Since it's free, open-air access, that's the only place you have to confront guards, and you have the added advantage of not dealing with eq to get through.

Enter archway, hit totem get past large number of guard, survive, fly, land hit totem, some how survive the guards touch gem.

We are talking about removing the archways. So no. And no, if totems hit in the trees now, i'm guessing they won't hit when you climb down as well (at least, that would make sense, is this how it is?) then you cure in the trees, then go down and touch the gem.

With the current fortress system, one person makes it through with enough dedication. This time, you're diving into guards for one brief second to instantly escape, if the totem's stupidity doesn't wreck your attempt.

You see what I mean, if you can fly you have to deal with two rooms and guards, not everyone can fly. You have to pass a lot of rooms with a lot of guards, you could be geysered etc etc, You have to pass at least two totems maby more. As I suggested think of the balance.

Compared to the cosmic plane you have to do one equi movement with no totems, this means you basically bypass the elemental guards through speed, you then transverse and end up on cosmic so in reality you only have to deal with how to get around 40 guards and no totem.

It takes 2000cr to raid Nil.

It takes...200cr or so and some gold to get a flying mount.

Fair enough 40 guards 4 seconds off equi and no totem, you need to come up with a comparable trial to get through to your gem.

Why are you off eq?

It takes much less, it takes a less than 300 credits to learn night to be able to bypass as many guards as you like, or it takes 300 credits or so to learn serpent to by pass as many guards as you like.



Example
got to elemental


se(instant action bypassed the elemental guards;Transverse cosmic(Thrown off equi for 4 seconds) at cosmic with 40 guards(now figure out a way to deal with 40 guards for 4 seconds and you win your right to raid)

See what I mean, the access to the avatars should be comparable to that.

EDIT: Oh add sacraments, night and lowmagic to the skill lists that can bypass one room of 40 guards with no trouble.

So far you have been coming up with ideas that still make it to hard to raid.

Shadowdance flight won't help you raid Nil. You'll die at the nexus.

Serpent is the method of choice to get through to Etherwilde at the moment. If we're working off of the assumption that everyone has trans lowmagic and an awesome sense of timing, I'd say it's already balanced. And also...for the record, if the cities cared to do so, they could throw guards on elemental and stop the communes from using the serpent trick.

We're talking about the ability to skirt around guards like you skirt around guards in a village (which I do all the time, and could continue to do in my sleep--it's very, very easy), then get to one defended room, where you just pray stupidity doesn't hit, or maybe use the serpent method so it doesn't matter if stupidity hits.

So you fly around, land;focus mind;sip allheale;touch crown to get into the Avatar place, where no guards can be placed. Then you do your raid from there. Or you fly around, land trees;focus mind;sip allheale;enter feather.

I actually really like Xavius' idea. Remove the archway so people can fly in / out, leave the guards, leave the totems, but put the big targets in a place where guards cannot be stationed. Fae can still be taken by single raiders, and the big things are places where raiders can station themselves and prepare to tackle bigger game.

Good gods, 12 pages of the same rejected ideas being flogged. Please, everyone remember that for a solution to be implemented you're going to have to get SOME envoys or leaders from the communes to agree with it. Instead of saying, "no, I know what balance is and you dont, my idea wins so there!", maybe try some sort of compromises that leave both sides willing to accept it?

Anyway...

I like this.

Remove the archways, leave totems and guards and fae, and shift the Avatars. It seems something we could live with.



Edit: I'd also like to remind everyone that there is an important distinction between the fae of Etherwilde/Etherglom and the angels/demons of the cosmic planes that has been mainly skimmed over in some views on 'balance'.

Angels and demons can die, but they respawn.

Fae can die or be taken, but in either case they are GONE and do not respawn.

Three Commune envoys have posted in support of this one. Hmmm...