I really do not see the logic in moving the Avatars to Aetherbubbles, and yes I have read this whole thread.

Not aetherbubbles. Non-org, seperate local areas on Ethereal.

It would be like the pillars / pits / feather / monolith. You touch / enter something to move to another place in the same general area, but in this case it won't be org territory (so no guards and no totems).

If the area is being changed to be non organisation specific anyway then why move the Avatars to yet another area still?

Moving the avatars is fine - the Demon Lords and Supernals are in seperate areas too. But leaving guards and totems entirely makes absolutely no sense...

No, leave the rest of the area as org specific. With the archways gone, people can move in and around very easily, just need to be slightly more careful due to guards. Given the ease of fae-capturing (takes a FRACTION of a second to hit a "give honeycomb" alias or macro) that's okay. Totems aren't bonded everywhere, so take the time to map out where they are and you're going to be fine.

Since the Aspects and Avatars will be in a place where there are no guards at all, this gives an area for raiders to group up and prepare for Big Game hunting.

So that single raiders can get in and take fae undetected without killing fae and without getting a free ride.



The main parts of the ethereal reflections would remain org territory.

Why? You can kill the Avatars with the same amount of ease once you're inside as the Supernals/Demon Lords.

The etherforests have different defences because what is in each of them is quite different to whats inside the Elemental or Cosmic planes.

I'm giving a big thumbs up to your suggestion, Xavius.

Why should Fae be so much more protected than angels and demons. I don't know about Celest, but Magnagora doesn't even have one honeycake hoarded away.

...

Is Athana still a cook, by the way? If so, you can EASILY FIX THAT!

Well...one, they're not all that well defended. The difference is that there's no burst defense trying to get in. Second, in the interest of maintaining that little bit of diversity in life circumstances, we'd be keeping the invisible way to steal the fae.

Yeah, our one cook. Will take us ages to stock up, and if one person happens to be chilling in EtherGlom or Wilde when we pip up it's over before it's begun.

One more than we have!

By "ages" you mean "two hours," right? Since each honeycomb is turned into 4-6 honeycakes by a chef with a spatula, and there are a LOT more than 3 honeycombs in Faethorn (try begging the knights, by the way). Can get approximately fifty in half an hour, then just have to wait for more to repop.

Because you can't steal all the angels from Celestia and put them on Nil.

You can't lead a demon away with a wink and smile.

You can't walk from Nil to Celestia and back again with access to all plane escape and teleportation skills.

Although I'm not entirely sure, I don't think angels/demons are part of any quest. The loyalty of the catacombs doesn't change because Magnagora has lost too many of some random efreeti mobiles that spawned in Nil.

By the way, Estarra, I'd REALLY like your opinion on this idea, since I feel it is FAR more balanced than just using the trusty old sledgehammer and smashing both places.

Not technically, but they can be turned in for power and it harms the power of the victim. Only difference is the monthly power thing. And when Fae are turned in on Nil and Celestia I believe the imps and cherubs are only temporary and that the Fae proceed to respawn in Faethorn - that is to say, we don't keep any of them.

Obviously. Serenwilde can take Fae from Glomdoring, however.


And there's nothing 'technical' about it. You cannot affect the respawn of angels or demons. You can with fae. Not only that, the fact they are part of a larger quest means they must be considered different to angels and demons. That is why leaving the defences of the Etherwilde/Etherglom, but removing archways to make it slightly easier, makes sense.

The "logic" is that since the ethereal Great Spirits do not manifest as physical expressions on the prime material plane like the animal Great Spirits (think Crow and White Hart), perhaps they would manifest as expressions within the aetheric substance of thought and spirit (i.e, Moon is an aetherbubbles and that is where the avatars reside). Anyway, after I asked people not to jump to conclusions on how this would impact the ethereal quests, everyone did so anyway in a manner solely to justify their own arguments, so I'll just say that since we may or may not implement change at some point in the distant or not-so-distant future, let's just disregard it for the current discussion.

While I appreciate ideas to rewrite and reconfigure the ethereal planes to make them more parallel to the cosmic planes, it's not something I'm very keen on doing.

Everyone does realize that the admin is placed in a damned-if-we-do and damned-if-we-don't position? Ah well!

My current leanings are:
*Remove loyalty in the ethereal forests (i.e., no guards or totems). I know this is unpopular with some people but I think it'll be for the best.
*Confirm that the Avatars are on about on the level of the Supernals, Demon Lords. (I think they actually currently are but we'll test it.) Basically, they should be able to handle themselves except against the most overwhelming odds, and we'll certainly adjust things to ensure that they are. (The purpose of ordinary raids as a rule shouldn't be to take out Avatars any more than the average raid on the cosmic planes are meant to take out the Supernals or Demon Lords. Yes, it's possible, but just damn hard and unlikely to do.)
*Make ethereal Glomdoring and ethereal Serenwilde their own continents upon the ethereal plane.
*Change the discretionary wiccan power of Surge to greatly increase the strength of the fae, including the Daughters and Ladies. While the ethereal forests are surged, fae would no longer accept honeycakes from anyone.

EDIT: Whoa, there was a lot of posting since I began drafting this! Sorry if it now seems out of place..

Wait... so now the proposal is (just regarding the Fae, not the avatars) leave everything the same as it is now but remove the archways?