Change to Ethereal

by Estarra

Back to Common Grounds.

Xenthos2006-06-06 02:58:40
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 5 2006, 10:53 PM) 294819

My current leanings are:

Still think that this is a sledgehammer approach, by the way. Could you comment on the one that three Forest envoys have said seems okay, please?
Unknown2006-06-06 02:58:51
I wouldn't worry about the additional posting, Estarra, we've just been chasing each other around in circles for the past ten pages. I'm personally enthralled with your current observations and will delude myself into thinking you agree with me until such delusions are soundly beaten from me.

In short:
wub.gif
Unknown2006-06-06 02:58:58
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2006, 02:53 AM) 294819

My current leanings are:
*Remove loyalty in the ethereal forests (i.e., no guards or totems). I know this is unpopular with some people but I think it'll be for the best.
*Confirm that the Avatars are on about on the level of the Supernals, Demon Lords. (I think they actually currently are but we'll test it.) Basically, they should be able to handle themselves except against the most overwhelming odds, and we'll certain adjust thinks to ensure that they are. (The purpose of ordinary raids as a rule shouldn't be to take out Avatars any more than the average raid on the cosmic planes are meant to take out the Supernals or Demon Lords. Yes, it's possible, but just damn hard and unlikely to do.)
*Make ethereal Glomdoring and ethereal Serenwilde their own continents upon the ethereal plane.
*Change the discretionary wiccan power of Surge to greatly increase the strength of the fae, including the Daughters and Ladies. While the ethereal forests are surged, fae would no longer accept honeycakes from anyone.

Yes, I would be most unhappy with this change, putting it mildly.

If you can't get the commune players on board, don't mess with it. Being totally honest, we've had enough tweaking on Ethereal recently as it is.
Unknown2006-06-06 03:02:10
Could we at least try it out? The staff has made it clear in the past that they're willing to adjust if (and when) their adjustments end up being too extreme. Case in point: Village feelings.

The only huge kink in it is the honeycake issue, that is, how easy fae are to just pick up, which could be resolved seperately.
Unknown2006-06-06 03:02:21
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 6 2006, 12:53 PM) 294819

My current leanings are:
*Remove loyalty in the ethereal forests (i.e., no guards or totems). I know this is unpopular with some people but I think it'll be for the best.
*Confirm that the Avatars are on about on the level of the Supernals, Demon Lords. (I think they actually currently are but we'll test it.) Basically, they should be able to handle themselves except against the most overwhelming odds, and we'll certainly adjust things to ensure that they are. (The purpose of ordinary raids as a rule shouldn't be to take out Avatars any more than the average raid on the cosmic planes are meant to take out the Supernals or Demon Lords. Yes, it's possible, but just damn hard and unlikely to do.)
*Make ethereal Glomdoring and ethereal Serenwilde their own continents upon the ethereal plane.
*Change the discretionary wiccan power of Surge to greatly increase the strength of the fae, including the Daughters and Ladies. While the ethereal forests are surged, fae would no longer accept honeycakes from anyone.

EDIT: Whoa, there was a lot of posting since I began drafting this! Sorry if it now seems out of place.. ermm.gif


Thanks for explaining it all. I do like most of these ideas, and the ones I don't like are probably fair adjustments anyway. And, yes, you're always in the position to cop a backlash from one party or another. We still appreciate everything that's done and know it's done with the best intentions.
Xenthos2006-06-06 03:03:27
QUOTE(Temporary_Guido @ Jun 5 2006, 11:02 PM) 294826

Could we at least try it out? The staff has made it clear in the past that they're willing to adjust if (and when) their adjustments end up being too extreme. Case in point: Village feelings.

The only huge kink in it is the honeycake issue, that is, how easy fae are to just pick up, which could be resolved seperately.

How about we try out the LEAST DAMAGING change first, Guido? Instead of going way too far and then needing to back up?
Estarra2006-06-06 03:06:04
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jun 5 2006, 07:58 PM) 294822

Still think that this is a sledgehammer approach, by the way. Could you comment on the one that three Forest envoys have said seems okay, please?


Could you summarize it again? I can't keep track of all the posts.
Unknown2006-06-06 03:06:11
QUOTE(Temporary_Guido @ Jun 6 2006, 03:02 AM) 294826

Could we at least try it out? The staff has made it clear in the past that they're willing to adjust if (and when) their adjustments end up being too extreme. Case in point: Village feelings.

Good example. How long did THAT take to 'adjust' (read: deactivated for a few weeks until it could be looked at). Wasn't it just oodles of fun in the meantime?

Why can't we try the LEAST major change first, and see what additional changes are needed on top of it?
Unknown2006-06-06 03:06:52
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jun 6 2006, 03:03 AM) 294828

How about we try out the LEAST DAMAGING change first, Guido? Instead of going way too far and then needing to back up?


We have yet to see how damaging this may be.
Xenthos2006-06-06 03:09:48
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 5 2006, 11:06 PM) 294829

Could you summarize it again? I can't keep track of all the posts.

-Remove the archways, make it so that you go straight from Faethorn into Ethereal Glomdoring / Ethereal Serenwilde again (or make the archways work from all elevations).
-Keep guards and totems in the main part of both Ethereal Reflections, so keep them as part of the Commune in the RP sense as well as mechanics sense.
-Make the Dark Nest and the Hart's Glade their own separate area so no guards and totems can be placed there.
-Create a new area for each Avatar which can be entered by touching an item where the Avatars are now. (For example, TOUCH CROWN at the place where Lhiannan is now would teleport you to Lhiannan's area.
-Each of these new areas would not be EthGlom / EthSeren territory, so no guards or totems here either.

This allows single raiders to dodge guards to steal fae (very easily since there isn't a chokepoint at ground level any more), and raiding parties to attack Aspects and Avatars.
Xavius2006-06-06 03:09:50
In summary:

The archways seperating Faethorn from the communes are removed so that anyone can simply walk/fly/burrow into the territory.

Crow's Nest and Hart's Glade/Monolith/Whateveritscalled becomes non-org territory.

The Avatars are moved to a new, non-org local area which has three ways in and three ways out. The entrances would be where the Avatars are now. The Avatars would be assisted in combat by Daughters/Ladies that do not participate in the Faethorn battles.
Estarra2006-06-06 03:20:35
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Jun 5 2006, 08:09 PM) 294833

-Remove the archways, make it so that you go straight from Faethorn into Ethereal Glomdoring / Ethereal Serenwilde again (or make the archways work from all elevations).
-Keep guards and totems in the main part of both Ethereal Reflections, so keep them as part of the Commune in the RP sense as well as mechanics sense.
-Make the Dark Nest and the Hart's Glade their own separate area so no guards and totems can be placed there.
-Create a new area for each Avatar which can be entered by touching an item where the Avatars are now. (For example, TOUCH CROWN at the place where Lhiannan is now would teleport you to Lhiannan's area.
-Each of these new areas would not be EthGlom / EthSeren territory, so no guards or totems here either.

This allows single raiders to dodge guards to steal fae (very easily since there isn't a chokepoint at ground level any more), and raiding parties to attack Aspects and Avatars.


One thing that hasn't been really discussed is the power that communes get from totems/trees. We've been crunching numbers and one reason I'm advocating removing totems is to offset some of the power discrepency that communes get.

Again, I'm not keen on adding on more territories. I'm fine with making the Nest and Glade separate though if that's what everyone wants.

To reiterate, I am still leaning towards removing guards and totems. However, I am sensitive to the communes wanting the RP ties to the ethereal forests. I notice no one has mentioned the proposed idea of changing wiccan's discretionary power. What if in addition, the discretionary wiccan power actually summoned forth moon guards (maybe special Ladies/Daugthers) to help defend the forest?
Xenthos2006-06-06 03:22:06
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 5 2006, 11:20 PM) 294836

One thing that hasn't been really discussed is the power that communes get from totems/trees. We've been crunching numbers and one reason I'm advocating removing totems is to offset some of the power discrepency that communes get.

Again, I'm not keen on adding on more territories. I'm fine with making the Nest and Glade separate though if that's what everyone wants.

To reiterate, I am still leaning towards removing guards and totems. However, I am sensitive to the communes wanting the RP ties to their commune. I notice no one has mentioned the proposed idea of changing wiccan's discretionary power. What if in addition, the discretionary wiccan power actually summoned forth moon guards (maybe special Ladies/Daugthers) to help defend the forest?

I don't think you've run the numbers completely, then. Both communes will get MORE power if you remove guards and totems completely from Ethereal, because the bulk of our guards are on Ethereal while the bulk of our totems are on Prime.
Unknown2006-06-06 03:24:53
Could we also have a new area on the cosmic plane that has archways to both Nil and Celestia, which has important denizens to both cities, and has two permanent rifts to each elemental plane?

Edit: Sorry, I'm cranky. I'm just tired of the admin response. This was facetious and can be ignored. depressed.gif
Xenthos2006-06-06 03:25:11
Question: why not make the Dark Nest and the Glade their own area (Sanctified Grove of the Glomdoring for example) and then have the three Avatar areas each be in that as well? So in the end, it's just the one more area (which you're already considering anyways), just the only way to get to them is through the touching connections (crown, paw, whatever).
Daganev2006-06-06 03:27:58
I think the original discretioary powers you mentioned were good, which was why nobody commented on them.

I also think its a good idea to require a security member to be around inorder for the avatars to have guardians assist them. It would use up power that we get from the totems, and aleviate part of the threat of wading through guards before you get to the avatars.
Estarra2006-06-06 03:28:55
Work with me, guys!

Assume, for the sake of argument, that the guards and totems will be removed.

Now, what could be tweaked to make everyone somewhat mollified?
Unknown2006-06-06 03:29:49
Like the idea of the wiccan discretionary power, both the boosting Fae suggestion and the summoning of special guards. It would allay most of the communes' concerns about being unable to guard and wouldn't be imbalancing if the cost and effect were appropriate.

That still leaves the issue of honeycakes, though, and the ease with which they can be stocked up and used to devastate the opposing side.
Unknown2006-06-06 03:31:00
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 5 2006, 08:28 PM) 294844

Work with me, guys!

Assume, for the sake of argument, that the guards and totems will be removed.

Now, what could be tweaked to make everyone somewhat mollified?


Nothing?

Removing the totems and guards, and requiring a Security member to summon any sort of defence will turn Ethereal into a grief-fest.

Unless you make all 3 of the Avatars assist eachother. Yeah.. that would do it.
Xenthos2006-06-06 03:31:00
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jun 5 2006, 11:28 PM) 294844

Work with me, guys!

Assume, for the sake of argument, that the guards and totems will be removed.

Now, what could be tweaked to make everyone somewhat mollified?

...

Link Nil to Celestia via an archway that doesn't take any balance to go through. Give a way to use the Ravenwood and Moonhart to get to Astral. Redo the ENTIRE FAETHORN QUEST because it will never ever be done again. Um. This is just a fraction of what would need to be done, by the way.