Xenthos: Why should you get totems, treebane, autoconglute, counter to 24/7 raiding on Etherwilde/Etherglom when we don't get any of that on Celestia/Nil?

This may sound stupid... but what if you really separated the areas in ethereal. Remove the connection entirely, perhaps have an event where aetherbubbles containing manifestations of the ethereal spirits begin to randomly appear in ethereal space (adds a nice factor to aetherspace).

I was going to suggest putting aethership docks in the ether forests and making them completely separate areas just like the elemental and cosmic planes (which I've always wanted to have a faethorn equivalent )

Then I remembered you would need to funnel power into a ship to keep it on ethereal... So if we want to get all questy perhaps a quest or something that could break a forests link to faethorn? The quest and counter quest would not affect the other commune so it would be possible for both to be disconnected from ethereal completely until they work on the counter quest.


sidenoteythingymabob: I should go ask a god or somethin' why there is no common ground shared by the cosmic and elemental realms...

"Enter Archway". More defensive advantages in return for having an *undefended* entrance (not one with hordes of guards sitting at it, like the nexus.)

I agree that the ethereal communes need to either be tougher to enter than they are now, or be easier to defend than cosmic ones, but allowing a full population of totems seems like far too much. It makes it -very- difficult to move around, and though they can be recovered by easily by most combatants, many people in any raiding party (be it against ethereal, cosmic, or elemental) are only part-time combatants at best and will be devastated. Throw in the treebane and other such things and it will still be a total bitch to raid.

Uhh... note that totems are NOTHING like statues. There is no such thing as a "full population of totems," because only one bonded will actually work, and there are a LOT of totems to bond both on-Prime and off. Crow/Hart users can only bond with *one* totem. It gives a bit of an advantage, but it's not like you'll hit a totem with every step you'll take, and you can easily flag a map to show which rooms have totems and avoid 'em.

You don't seem to understand that the communes can't bond every totem. They can bond a single totem for every Crow/Stag user. Given that Crow/Stag aren't very good for warriors, that leaves it mostly up to druids. Active druids. Which is not a massive number. And they have to split that between both Prime and Ethereal.

You're not going to run into that many bonded totems, in all honesty.

Yes, but a handful in strategic places will be bonded, and I'm sure if this change were to occur both communes would have the majority of their bonders set to ethereal. This would also further the power imbalance problem by remove guards but still allowing the totems there to generate power.

And hell, even one tuned totem is more than we get on cosmic. You need a defensive edge, but this is overkill.

City-dwellers really should get auto-conglut on your Cosmic Planes. The point about Totems is rather moot. There are only a limited number of Crow and Stag followers and the communes have to split bonding between key locations on Prime and on Ethereal, as a matter of fact, I don't think Serenwilde has more than 5 totems bonded on Ethereal due to the low number of Stag followers.
Treebane- Uh, not sure what your point is here. The Magi guild have equally powerful deterring Demesne effects such as Duststorm, Currents, Whirlpool, etc. Also, with Wisp being removed completely there went another major advantage to defending Ethereal.

We all know it is much easier to access Ethereal than the Cosmic planes but half the rifts we need since we cannot use Paintings like the cities to get to our villages quickly. Ethereal needs the added measure of protection because it's way too easy for people to raid it, not even less.


And this is supposed to be balanced? The cities can have every single outdoor room planted with statues, we can't do any of that in the communes or on Ethereal.

Actually, you're wrong.

Supernals/Demon Lords help eachother. The Avatars/Aspects do not.

I agree, but the Divine have rejected it time and time again.



That's more statues than we have.



That requires a demesne. A discretionary power doesn't. Demesnes can be broken; discretionary powers cannot be stopped. We have no discretionary power to stop people from climbing/flying, neither should you. Also, with demesne summon being removed there went another advantage to defending cosmic.

Actually, now that I look at this again, I think you might be thinking I'm referring to the Druid effect treebane. I'm not, I'm talking about Xenthos' proposed discretionary power of the same name.



Again - having very few totems > having no statues at all.

Yes, but we can have 0 rooms on Nil statued. And why do you need treebane when someone can just demesne the place?

Actually, how about this. New proposal. If all totems and guards are removed I would agree to a cheap but potent and long-lasting discretionary power. For a few hundred power you get your treebane for a couple hours, and a handful of other effects to harry raiders but not completely mutilate them. Also, buff moon and night fae and MAYBE make them aggro automatically against enemies.

Good luck breaking a demesne in EthGlom or EthSeren... (in other words, I don't see the difference, except that one takes a bit more power than the other and has a reach of the entire area instead of 25 rooms, but doesn't have all kinds of additional effects).

Breaking a demesne is POSSIBLE. Getting rid of a discretionary power is not.

Also, the inherent advantage druids have in natural forest (saplings harder to get rid of) is ANOTHER advantage the communes have in planar defense.

You can't break a demesne in EtherSeren or EtherGlom...unless you're a Druid from that Org.

hrm I accually like it more to make Faethorn nolonger connect to Ethereseren and Etherglom. Infact some sort of rift on prime in neutral territory like the valley, inner sea (this one is more or less because Lanikai is a fae). and allows all you people to still reach elemental (and finally give city knights the ability to reach elemental planes on their own while enemied to communes.) Only guards at the commune nexi, those other rifts mentioned are player made and can be permanently destroyed. No totems on ethereal at all. add aetherports and cubix exits. Possible RP reason is that Maeve got fed up with the crimes against her rule by both communes that she performs a rite that moves faethorn away from all other ethereal locations.

However that is a very big change so I'll settle for aspects to aetherbubbles. And only wiccans can reach it on themselves, though other commune members can follow them and preferbly also a cubix connection though that isn't at all necessary.

Well, that needs to change too. Actually, besides guards that's probably the most imbalancing thing there if it's true.

It's just like Earth and Water. Can't change the terrain.

Except Earth and Water don't have the Supernals.

I've always thought the unchangeable terrain on water/earth was rather imbalancing anyway, but imagine if Celestia or Nil couldn't be broken. That's what this is like.

I really see this best solved by just moving the avatars, since that is all people are really caring about.

The avatars existed before the communes existed, the avatars may have a special bond in being worshiped, but they are not defined by the communes, as far as I know. Just as the Supernals and Demon Lords exist in a place that does not actually belong to the city they represent, it makes most sense to move the Avatars to a place that does not actually belong to the commune they represent.

This way, you won't have any guards or totems, and it will just be mobs that are accessible via ships and perhaps cubixes, and that those people who bond to that spirit will have a quick teleportation ability there.

It makes it both harder to raid and defend, but doesn't make it impossible to do either.

I think any changes you do to Ethereal will make it either too easy or too hard to raid, or it will just not make any sense.

The avatars aren't the only problem, Daganev. The Fae themselves also need to be attainable through raiding, just like angels and demons, and the aspects of Hart and Crow must be as vulnerable as the Earth and Tide Lords.