Don't you dare relate The Cure with emo

To begin, I'll say that I've been reading this but not saying anything yet as I've tried to think over various proposals and what they might mean. And, I don't really have an answer or proposal of my own. Also, I'm wary of the idea of changes. While I appreciate the supportive ones and the general intent, other changes have felt like a sledgehammer was at work rather than a chisel. Now, since I mentioned I don't really have an answer, I'm then posting for other reasons.

First, because X does not, and in many cases should not, equal Y. As an example applicable in this particular question, "city" does not equal "commune" ... though before anyone waxes outraged over that idea, I'm not saying the overall view of and approach to each shouldn't be similar from a technical game-balancing perspective. However, individual corresponding aspects of each do not have to be equal. Something about the differences inherant in each immersive paradigm are what draws us to play as X instead of Y, or Y instead of X, isn't it?

Second, before any changes are considered, it's important to remember what the past and current understanding and meanings are. For the communes, the Great Spirits that remained with each one became that organizations Guardian Spirits. If, after so long, the Guardian of an area leaves that area to reside in an aetherbubble, it's going to feel to the characters like an abandonment. The effects of which will only be mitigated in part if the whole thing's done very carefully with consideration towards that, and still I feel it would have consequences on the players of said characters.

Also along the lines of the aetherbubble idea, there'd then be the question of where the champions of the Avatars who moved to the aetherbubble and the fae who were brought to the Avatars would be. In the aetherbubble with the Avatars? Bad idea, as the idea of making Avatars/champions/spirit-loyal-fae more vulnerable to raids by others would be offset by those few who have their characters dedicated to preventing such things. Such a change would call for those few characters to become more isolated in their self-imposed, rp-supported duty of keeping watch, this time in an aetherbubble with nothing to do and no one to talk to (as opposed to keeping watch on Ethereal, where they can wander around and Influence guards and fae, play herbalist if they're one with the faeleaf, and wander between their home territory and Faethorn now and then). And if/when raider(s) arrive, they get to die to announce the raid to their commune since talking on CT won't (at this time) be heard from the bubble. Even if all the aetherbubble had was the Avatars, is the expectation that the guilds devoted to the Spirit of those Avatars are just going to say "oh, well they're vulnerable and can die and we'll suffer when that happens ... so let's not bother trying to keep watch or anything while we wait for it to happen"? Whichever way, the circumstances would either place a heavier burden on the few who care for and are immersed in the RP of their characters or call for a radical jolt to that immersion for little reason (i.e., "Oh, I'm a _____dancer and yet I don't care what happens to _____, nor should I.").


By now, I suspect I've been rambling a bit more than I initially intended to. I'll come to the end, at least for now, by quoting the following for truth, though I'm a bit confused how an approximate time of within the past week or two is referred to as "way back when."

From what it sounds like overall, the archways should be removed or altered. The ethereal reflections of the forests would then be easier to enter for those who think it's too difficult now. The main reasons I like the archways are the way they limit access (prevent flying/burrowing/tree-level entry) and the way they clearly and visibly define the edges of the areas for newbies and geographically-challenged non-newbies.

I was referring to way back when, not a week or two ago. I was talking about when I was a druid, the first time Mag was trying to help Glom win the battle, which was a very way back when

I didn't know they did it again this last time.

That's because they didn't. It makes Serenwilde feel better to think so, though.

they didn't....

though I don't know if this has been said or not already, this is just an idea

a way that seems logical to me, and potentially not revolutionary to the present set up would be to have ways for commune members to do something to get from etherglom/seren to faethorn in a way similar to transversing planes, but in a sense that it is just transvering through different areas of a plane seperated by aetherspace. These places where you could transverse through parts of the plane by could have the same guarding potential as nexii (?), maybe even make the nexii capable of being transversed through to other sections of a plane. On a side note, if this actually worked, it could provide the basis for common areas in other planes, though that might not be too smart because somehow they would need protection against violence if they had something worth fighting over

just an idea, please don't shoot me to brutally

I like that idea.. but then again, thats basically what I suggested in the first place.

It's true, Tsuki wasn't present at the time of the alleged raid. She (and consequently I) only knows what she heard from those characters of the Serenwilde who were and things said in reference to it by a Magnagoran character a few in-game months ago. So thank you, players of characters from XXXX, for the definitive clarification of what characters from YYYY did or did not do to an area of the ZZZZ in-game. I'd love to be omniscient as well. (Before anyone becomes outraged over the last two sentences, please take a step back and read it again. Initially, I included the organizational identities specific to this instance, but those weren't really necessary to convey the meaning of my words, which should have a broader application. While the sentence mentioning omniscience is perhaps a bit too sarcastic, I kept it in hopes that you will think about what it means rather than feel I'm using it as an insult.)

I hope it was noticed that mention of the alleged raid wasn't all, or even a significant portion, of what I wrote. Naturally we're biased towards the views and areas of our characters, but we can also remember that we are and not automatically say that J is wrong because J is a player or player's idea from an opposing faction. I, player and character, don't claim to know everything, and I'm well aware that others have more knowledge of some things than I do. When I, also player and character, say something, it's because I believe it, not because I want to believe it since it gives me or my side an advantage. If there truly wasn't a raid, then I apologize for believing the reports that there was, but ... in keeping with what I wrote earlier, it doesn't really have an impact on the topic other than the assumption/understanding that, if true, things aren't as impossible as they're perceived. Even if they're not that impossible, they still may need revision. Now, it would be nice if we could return to the subject at hand and leave the IC propaganda and IC views in-game.

Various ideas expressed so far contain a variety of options. In general, it feels like two choices: separate the areas/things more (moving things to aetherbubbles, distancing the ethereal forests from Faethorn) or remove some separations (remove/modify the archways, add aethership docks and/or cubix entrances).

I also like Thul's ideas.

There was a raid, just the bulk of the damage was not done by Magnagorans. They did do a raid a couple hours later in Faethorn, but by then the Ladies were pretty much already dead. Nor did Magnagora raid Ethereal Serenwilde as a whole to get the ladies therein, because it *isn't* possible to do so, not as a team at least. The only way is a single skilled combatant (as I said in my post quite some time ago) who is able to exploit guards and find a way to pick the champions off one-by-one. You need full movement ability to do this, you can't be bothered with slightly less skilled people trying to keep up with you.

Now, Magnagora *did* raid the Grove, because... surprise, surprise... there were no guards within the Grove (just like there are no guards within the Nest). This is entirely a Commune choice, we could both easily place a pile of guards in there and never suffer a single organized raid again, just one individual who runs around and can't stop or he'll smack into guards.

I agree I do like the idea of the archways, but you know the guards and the totems have to be taken off of ether glom and serenwilde to make it balanced.

Seriously everyone is being far far to complicated here, make it so you can summon guards at the archway and at the nexus only. Make it so you can not bond totems anywere in ether glom or seren. Then add in a cubix exit on the ether glom and seren lands in a non guarded area.

This dosnt sound that complicated to me to actually do, it would balance it out very easily and simply.

Then you obviously did not closely read the comments at the end of Xenthos' post.

You can't just remove guards except for spot x, because of the way guards work and the way territories work.

As far as I know ixion raided to kill the serens ladies to help out.



I did, sorry but heres one way you can do it.

Change the code that ether glom and seren are not part of glomdoring organisationally. That removes guards every where and removes organisational conglut which is fair and balanced.

Then is it possiable to change or copy the code from the nexus, you are able to make it so that one room on elemental and cosmic planes are guardable, why would it be so hard to make it so one or two rooms were guardable on ether glom/seren?

The Faethorn quest would be havoc. Raiding the Ethereal forests would be unbelievably easy compared to raiding the cosmic planes.

I don't mind the guards and totems being removed, but it needs more thought into... maybe fairness is a better word, since balance is overused. Cloning the areas doesn't make the effort required to attack/defend equal.

If you want simple solutions, how about no guards, no totems, no archways and a permanent distortion field active over Ethereal Serenwilde and Glomdoring? Also, make the amount of fae resetting in Serenwilde, Glomdoring and Faethorn constant, and disable the Faethorn quest entirely. (The distortion field would allow transversing, obviously.)

I could live with that.

Sure you could do that, but then you don't have ethereal Serenwilde anymore.

Its called the Earth plane, not Elemental Magnagora.

A "small" change like that is just a bit too huge in my opinion.

These suggestions all seem to regress even farther than the point before we had archways and everyone complained about the amount of raiding, does anyone else notice that?

Are you sure? I don't think that would be a problem at all.

It was removing guards but not totems that was impossible. A room is either organization territory or not.

No they wouldnt, my changes would make ether glom and seren wilde raidable but still more secure than the cosmic plains, I already explained why quite a few posts ago. Please can you explain your point instead of just saying yes or no?

I like your idea of no guards no totems and remove the archways, make it so you have to transverse between faethorn and ether serenwilde/glomdoring. That is pretty much what Ive been asking for and suggesting.

So you mean 4 continents on the plane instead of the one now? Like Nil/Celestia?

Edit: IF the fae quests are disabled so the amount of fae in Faethorn/Glom/Seren is constant, sure, that would be fine too.

Neither this nor the previous change I suggested are good in my opinion. I don't like what they do to the Ethereal plane, and I don't like losing the commune vs commune quest. But as long as the quest is disabled, we can live with them.

The ethereal quests and areas are connected, they go very well with how nature is connected, even though it would make things much easier, I hope that disconnecting them and disabling the interaction between the communes is not the solution picked.

Just to let you know (though no decision has been made), I'm leaning towards removing the loyalty of ethereal Glomdoring and Serenwilde forests which would remove all totems and guards.

I still like the idea of moving the Moon and Night avatars to ethereal aetherbubbles, mostly for roleplaying reasons. Quests of course would be adjusted so don't jump to any conclusions on how they would work--the main conflict would still be on the ethereal plane and I don't see any reason to make "raiding" aetherbubbles particularly enticing--except for roleplaying, of course. However, if we do implement this, it wouldn't be done any time soon.

Again, this is what I'm leaning towards. Please continue to civilly discuss the topic.