Making them seperate continets is one option yup that would work. It would also avoid a problem that may arise later on from un enemied people entering then the rest of the portaling in to attack. I don't see why you would need to change the quest at all, the commune v commune fae quests wont need changing at all unless im missing something?

You can raid get past the room of guards at the archway then kill the fae ladies/daughters/kidnap fae from ether seren/glom in the same way you can go and kill cherubs devas etc for essence. All this does is create a simple little guard placement change to balance it out, nothing serious or drastic needs to be done, just make it so guards can only be placed at the archway and at the nexus. Remove totems etc, this can all be done by making the area not coded to be glomdoring/seren territory and then recoding the archway room and the nexus room to be places where guards can be summoned and left just like the nexus on cosmic.

Make it so that entering the archways takes balance for 4 seconds like transversing and then ether seren and ether glom are now actually raidable, in fact even with all these changes ether seren and glom will still be much stronger and easier to defend than the cosmic planes due to demenses.

I cant see any reason why the fae quests would need to be altered really.

That would just be...a really bad idea.

If there is anything in the Ethereal areas to take, it'll be taken by people simply because there's nothing to stop them. Every person who has an issue with either commune will be up there taking pot shots because there's nothing to stop them.

And the reason why the Aetherbubbles is a bad idea has already been shown as well--you can't protect them.

And what's the point of even having EtherSeren/EtherGlom if you remove everything that makes them a part of their communes? You might as well just remove them entirely and make the plane simply Faethorn, because that is pretty much what you'd be doing by taking away loyalty and the avatars.

Well, there would be the Aspects, which would be killed so often it wouldn't even be funny. I guess that's something?

Yeah.. this is just a bad idea.

I agree FULLY.

I'd really much rather that you made it so that guards can't be summoned off-Prime instead. Not only does removing the loyalty make totems and guards go away, it also removes the org-based conglut. In fact, removing guards off-Prime would even allow you to make both Celestia and Nil full territories of the city and able to let their citizens conglut there as well.

What you are leaning to seems to be way too much, to me. Both in a game mechanics sense AND a RP sense.

Hmm nope ixion raided to kill the hart aspects, didn't touch the moon ladies at all. He stayed in the hallow of last standing and chopped the trees as well.

To my knowledge, only one person kills the moon ladies, and it's lucky they haven't been caught due to people being afk while in ether seren whilst they did it.

I'm really hating how SLOW the forums are right now. Double posts galore.

I don't think the aetherbubbles would be hard to defend or even really need defending if done right. (i.e. quest based raiding, and good quests/influencing for people to want to stay there.. And a special shout over the commune aethers if loyal mobs get attacked)

I've always had a concern over the fact that its the only plane that has connectd areas, so that there are safe zones, and unsafe zones. Unlike the other places where if you are there anywhere, you are either defending or raiding or neutral, doesn't matter where you are standing.

Removing guards from the Nexii on Cosmic and Elemental planes will just be a nightmare for everyone.

I think estarras idea is perfect actually, it balances it out with the cosmic planes pretty well, it removes guards and totems just like cosmic. It causes the communes defence to be lowered to a level that is still higher than the cities.

No, it doesn't balance it out with the cosmic planes "pretty well." It doesn't balance it at ALL, actually. The full balance would require both Cosmic Planes to be connected to each other as well, in a place where there can be no guards, so people can just walk from one to the other without ever being stopped.

I'm sure you can agree that this is a bit too much as well.

I don't see the problem Id prefer no one to have guards and totems, It dosnt seem to much at all and has been pointed out even if estarra does "remove the loyalty of ethereal Glomdoring and Serenwilde forests which would remove all totems and guards." The communes will still have a better defence and better utility than the cities in defence, I really cant see how you can argue against this really from a balance point of view.

It's not like it takes more than a few minutes to get an aethership to cosmic. And there's no guards at the aethership exit. Or, if you have a cubix, that's even faster.

Sorry, but going up to the archway, typing "enter archway," and standing there laughing at absolutely no defence is a heck of a lot less than "transverse cosmic" into a pile of guards and waiting for equilibrium to come back.

If you want to remove guards/totems completely, then link the Cosmic Planes in a place where no defence can be positioned. Or come up with a better idea.


"A few minutes" is a lot more time than "enter archway," by the way.

Im sorry xenthos but this have been covered many times, I shall go over the basic points for you though, this is what I think that needs to happen to make it balanced

-remove the loyality of the entire ether glom/seren make it so no totems can be placed at all just like cosmic.

-Make it so you can summon guards at the nexus and at the archway, this replicates the code used to allow people to place guards on the nexus at cosmic/elemental

-make it so that enter archway takes 4 seconds of equi

-Place a cubix exit that leads to ether seren/glom

If all of this happened xenthos would you have a proble with any of it?

EDIT:Again communes still will have an exceptional advanatage due to the fact that their demenses are unbreakable, this is a very big advanatage and in fact would and could cover up the weakness of the archway, On second thought it may be a good idea to remove loyality and leave the archway as it is as long as the communes still have the advantage of demenses

Yes, because this *can't be done*. Guards can only be summoned at the nexus, and guards can't travel through non-org territory. Nor is this what Estarra is suggesting, she just wants to remove the loyalty, which I feel is the *wrong* solution.

Again, this would not balance anything.

1st, the Avatars are weaker than Demon Lords/Supernals
2nd, there are less Avatars than Demon Lords/Supernals
3rd, Avatars do not assist eachother in combat like Demon Lords/Supernals
4th, Avatars do not summon mobs to help like the Demon Lords/Supernals

None of you guys seem to realize any of that. If you take away the totems, the guards, and org conglut, then you might as well just kiss the Avatars goodbye.

The same goes for if they are on an aetherbubble, except it'll be far worse.

Are you not able to summon guards at plints in villiages? I thought that would be a good idea or a good way to replicate it.

But on the other hand as I say the ability to have unbreakable demenses does cover up an easy to get to enterance in some ways.

The goal is to balance it so it's not a complete fortress, not to axe everything and hang out a "Kill us all you want!" sign, by the way. It is possible to soften it without just screwing it over completely.


The monoliths count as a Nexus in a lot of ways, which is why they can be used like that. There is no such monolith at the archways. Also, an unbreakable 25-room demesne doesn't cover either EthGlom or EthSeren, which means it doesn't cover the "easy to enter" bit at all.

Maybe if it was a geo demesne. But we're talking about Druid Demesnes, which are majorly shut down by Protection Scrolls, and easily solved by killing the druid (and in a small area like EtherSeren, that isn't difficult)

So you remove loyality, place a monolith at the archway, alter it a bit of course, call it a tree of super protection or what ever you like. You now can summon guards at the archway and at the nexus. Im sure it cant be to hard to change it so enter archway disrupts your balance for 4 seconds when you do so either. Problem solved.

Anything else or would this not work?

Again I also feel you should have a cubix exit on ether seren and ether glom to balance it out.

I do not think that is true.

I have a strong suspicion that if things were moved to the atehrbubble it would be harder to attack, knowing that its less likely to be defended.

Thus Estarra's comment, of not having incentives to kill the avatars save for RP.

I doubt the avatars and aspects would work very similar to how they are now, thats why its a big change.

1. Create a reason for people from teh commune to want to be there. (i.e. good place to level up like Shallach)
2. Create instant teleportation for defenders to the location. If the defenders just kill one person, it would take them a while to come back to keep attacking, thus giving the defenders a good advantage.
3. Have the Avatars have creatures that defend them. I.e redcaps and barghats, or Mothers and Crones that are a bit beafed up.
4. Have the main method of "attacking" the avatars be quest based, such as the way Tree is done.

To me, that would make the Aetherbubble a good sollution.

Still don't think it would work. I'd far prefer that they look into a way of recoding guards to make a less axe-like change. Yes, it does need to be reduced. No, it doesn't need to be nerfed into oblivion.