- The main effect this will have is a psychological one; people can get inquisitioned, die, and walk away.

- Not being able to make their enemies pray will increase the experience disadvantage Celest has against its enemies. This essentially consists of (1) Lich meaning no experience loss for Magnagoran bashers, (2) The catacombs, a Magnagoran bashing ground. Etc. (Evidence: half of the top 20 for experience are Magnagoran, only 1 is Celestian).

Stuff.

Some of your points are good, but others are ridiculously skewed. See above.

You need to think from both sides of the fence if you're going to claim 'objective' views. Both necromancy and sacraments received no envoy changes, save for one aspect of one skill in sacraments (which I personally don't care either way about, since I never vitae). Sacraments > Necromancy, such is generally accepted to be true- See countless threads on this topic. Warrior ranting aside.. necromancy was in need of envoys rather badly.

You make it seem like the change was a life altering and crippling change. That isn't the case. If you want to hear of a truly crippling change, ponder the lunge nerf effect on damage warriors, BOTH the envoy posted change AND the silence nerf it received.

Isn't that what every other guild has to deal with? Why should -only-people with sacraments be able to bypass suspect?
Its been discussed that the catacombs do not belong to Magnagora--they just control it anyone can try to take over or hunt there if they wanted to. Also Astral xp is twice if not three times as good as catacombs and I don't think Celest has a problem getting there

EDIT: And you can't really base it off xp rankings. Magnagorans are zombies and we don't sleep remember?

Isn't that what every other guild has to deal with? Why should -only-people with sacraments be able to bypass suspect?

Its been discussed that the catacombs do not belong to Magnagora--they just control it anyone can try to take over or hunt there if they wanted to. Also Astral xp is twice if not three times as good as catacombs and I don't think Celest has a problem getting there

EDIT: And you can't really base it off xp rankings. Magnagorans are zombies and we don't sleep remember?

Thirdly, it is a life altering change. This thread isn't about the other outcomes of the summit, so I shan't go into those here.

Finally, I really do think that Sacraments and Necromancy, two days ago, were perfectly balanced. The advantages of Lich to experience, Crucify to team combat, putre to everything, etc. was countered by judgement, trueheal, inquisition, etc.

I think the point he's trying to make, for the sake of participating in PK on the Prime plane and the Prime plane alone, that Vitae > Lich. Do you agree with this? If you were thinking "Hmmm.. I'm going to attack Amaru and that other Celestine right now" or some other situation where death is quite likely, would you rather have Lichdom up or Vitae up? Assuming your level was say, in the 90's.

Everywhere else, off the Prime plane, sure Lichdom is better. But on the Prime plane? Is it still distinctly better or not? Is there a blurring of the two, degrading the value of your transcendant ability?

First of all, sacrifice is exp-neutral, as it requires a death for a life.

Second, the catacombs belong to Magnagora because of their geographical location and access. It's barely disputable. You would be saying the same as us if the entrance were in Oleanvir Valley.

How is your combat balance affected by this change?

First of all, sacrifice is exp-neutral, as it requires a death for a life.

Except that it will work on anybody such as Aquamancers, others who don't have the sacrifice ability, and any other allies--that in my opinion is amazing

Finally, I really do think that Sacraments and Necromancy, two days ago, were perfectly balanced. The advantages of Lich to experience, Crucify to team combat, putre to everything, etc. was countered by judgement, trueheal, inquisition, etc.

But a lot of people think it wasn't balanaced at all, what's your point?

Over the last three RL days, I have individually inquisitioned and killed 4 times people who would otherwise have struck vitae and escaped. I'm up about 30% from them, incidentally.

They do not escape. Vitae is a death. Let me find a quote from someone else so that you might believe me.

I'm well into the 90's Tuek, and I would MUCH prefer to have Lichdom as compared to vitae.

Um, well.... that's purely subjective. They escape praying, and escape losing a significant amount of experience. Whether you think vitae is death or not doesn't matter a jot to me.

Um, well.... that's purely subjective. They escape praying, and escape losing a significant amount of experience. Whether you think vitae is death or not doesn't matter a jot to me.

... when you kill someone with vitae, the person has been slain by you: you scored you kill, you got your XP. If he escapes with spores then it means that he escaped a second death, not that he escaped death entirely. Whereas with lich/hermit you truly do escape death.

But you count lich and transmigrate as deaths where they excape praying, and lose NO experience? I pick death!

No.. as I mentioned it helps maintain the XP balance, which is tipped towards Magnagora anyway. It also acts as a deterrant for Magnagorans.