Except that's not how it goes. If there's going to be combat on prime, and I face losing a week worth of work in one battle, I'm not going to risk it. I'll make sure to kill someone where I am either certain to win, guaranteed not to pray, or I won't bother at all.

Reducing the limitations -and- penalties on combat is the way to encourage more dynamic conflict. Not remove them entirely, but make sure they aren't a deterrant to combat, as you said. If the punishment for losing is too high, you stifle the amount of fighting that high level players are willing to engage in.

I can have an 'intense' experience trying to survive in Faethorn, where I only lose 1-2% experience and a fair bit of power on a death. If I had to pray every time I died there, I can tell you honestly I wouldn't bother with combat at all. It just isn't worth it.

I think only one good point has been made.

Inquisition no longer has that fear factor associated with it. However, I wonder why that fear factor was ever allowed to exist in the first place.

No longer the fear factor? It's essentially an instant-kill if you get hit with Inquisition since it doubles all damage on you while you're Inquisitioned as well as strip all defenses (except Vitae now). By far and wide it is still one of the most feared abilities in Lusternia, ranking right up there with all the instant-kills like Soulless or Heartburst.

Yes but your not going to get tells saying "Die! You Vitaeless Glob!"

Quoted for truth.

As far as the inquisition downgrade, didn't you read what Xenthos said? People such as Narsrim would lock someone, call for a friend with Sacraments to port in, have them strip vitae, then kill them. The skill is still just as effective as before only now it doesn't ensure that your victim will pray.. I dont see the big deal unless you are really intent on making someone pray.

And for bashing, the top xp rankings are mostly Magnagoran because of what Ashteru said. The players just happen to be more addicted/dedicated I guess. Niara reached Demigod fine, so did Aesyra. When I started playing I set that goal for myself and frankly I doubt it would matter what city I happened to be in, I would have gotten it eventually.

Personally I do not see a problem with it not stripping vitae. Yes, it gives a person a chance to get away without praying, but that is a situation every other person without high level sacraments have to deal with.

I do agree with you on the softening of penalties though. My view is a bit different on why I feel the realm is going in the wrong direction by overly softening the effects of death. I personally feel that the more power a person possesses, the more careful the person should have to be to hold on to that power. So, Titans and Demigods who overly put themselves into conflicts should have to worry that the consequences of their actions may lead to them losing their power by the hands of the antagonized populous. Right now, that fear is pretty minute. As time progresses, the realm seems to be moving towards a total eradication of a fear of what retribution can bring.

Exactly. We have had to many complainers in this realm that have watered it down.

Also, according to my experience with the forums, the definition of "griefer" is this:
Anyone who causes me pain or loss, no matter how annoying I was, or what I was doing, or how many times I raided a commune or city. If I was being an ass, annoying, or raiding and the defenders killed me, they are all griefers! Anyone who harms me is automatically a griefer!

Noooooooooooo! Don't dare!



No it wouldn't. I think most of Celest gets on with Ekard. And I feel sad for him now Catarin left, after being abused. Come baack. Screw Princess, but just come back.

Massive dowgrade??

What skills have been downgraded by me?? As far as i know only Inquisition have been changed. And if you feel its massive downgrade, then something is wrong with your perspective. I asked for some usefull changes to Ablution and Lustration but nothing for now.

And yes even if i speak about going to other cities or communes i do its entirely on OOC level. I never did anything against Celest. Nothing. And even on OOC level i didnt say, yes i will join Magngagora, closest to this would be we will see or maybe. Your informator should be more specific.

And reason why i dont fight right now for Celest is simple i dont have a system. I started to working on my second one but in same time some things have changed in my life and maybe you noticed how rare im in game?
Until the time when i could be more often, i will be on retirement, but even then if our villagers are attacked im going there to fight without system.

You should know as an Envoy that 5% of the upgrades you suggest will be implemented, and 95% of the downgrades. That's how it works.

I reject all claims of being a 'griefer' because it's a word imported from MMORPGs, which are sad, monotonous environments with roleplay deficits.

There are better ways the coders could have gone about reducing the amount of exp people lose. What I don't like about this change is the way it singles out Sacraments, and the way it allows more people to walk off protected after a fight.

If something along the lines of global conglutination was introduced (it seems close) to replace vitae, I wouldn't complain - at least people would be DYING when they're killed. That's what inquisition is all about.

As for those who've been suggesting that reduced exp losses will encourage PK, let me share my opinion on that. Softening of PK penalties and gains (exp) should only be introduced if at the same time, reductions in PK restictions come into play.

So, for example, allow lich/vitae and downgrade inquisition. But then destroy the 10 victim limit to allow the incentive to work.

What we seem to have at the moment is a confusing mix:

- softening of exp loss and gains for PK, apparently to encourage it
- toughening of PK restrictions, such as victim limits, apparently to discourage it.

Hence frustration.

Make your bloody minds up.

Also, a note to those who complain about 'teams using inqui-gank'....

Lusternia is balanced for 1v1 combat. Teams can do any amount of mischief. Narsrim calling a team of Sacs users to inquisition so that someone has to pray, how is that different from:

- him calling some friends to drop eye sigils around the place so that a lich has to pray
- him calling a Mage friend for a barrier, so that X has to pray
- him calling his friends PERIOD, because if they don't attack until X hits vitae, they are free to kill X again when Narsrim has hit vitae anyway!

Illogical arguments people.

Making people pray is not a valid combat move, people who just vitaed are defenseless and will die if not run, and any skills that force people to pray are a Bad Thing that has to be removed, since they add nothing to combat and simultaneously cause grief.

Also, why hasn't Amaru been re-banned yet?

That's loaded with opinion... you can't win an argument with opinions. Also, try and avoid using the word 'grief' because it just makes people see you as a target (the winners don't use the word).

Why? I'm saying it generates grief in the sense that it causes drama. It makes people feel bad, it makes people frustrated, it doesn't add to the game. Hence, grief. You obviously have been called a griefer so many times (And enjoyed it, too) you forgot what it actually means.

I've never known or cared what it means, to me the word 'griefer' is just like the whining sound a dog makes if you give it a sound beating.

A lot of things in the game cause 'drama' or bad feelings. According to your logic, we should get rid of any exp loss whatsoever. It's a matter of degree, not of absolutes.

You see, it doesn't add to the game; combat adds to the game. EXP loss adds to the game. Both cause huge amounts of grief. Skills that strip vitae don't add anything to the game; they don't make it more enjoyable for the people using them (Unless they're sadistic jerks) and they make people who are targetted by them frustrated (Why shoould dying to a Celestine have more XP loss than dying to anyone else?)

Ahh, so Inquisition is all about making someone pray??
Good to know that.
But why only one skill would be avaible to strip all defenses and not leave any option to run from death when such ways exist? Why Paladins and Celestians would have a way to strip vitae, when NOONE else can??

If you want to force someone else to pray so badly. After you kill him and he vitae try to kill him second time.
And if you bring here your PK restricting then, it seems that you wasnt defending but attacking. And yes it is griefing if you attacking someone with "I WANT TO MAKE HIM PRAY AND SUFFER" in mind.

And if you think that i abused Envoy position in any way, please report me to gods. Im sure they will deal with me. I have nothing to be afraid.

Oh, please don't think I was attacking inquisition itself, just the Vitae part. Inquisition is just fine, making someone pray (Which was its greatest appeal to a lot of people) isn't; when you start to play just to make someone frustrated, it's time to stop, think, and possible bash yourself with a clue-by-four.

Ekard, I can't understand you.

Verithrax, that isn't the point of what I've been saying.. I don't get sadistic thrills from making people pray. It's as if you've not read any of my posts in the whole thread.

Now, that's a lot more reasonable on your part.
Why exactly was the limit introduced?

Competly untrue. Inquisition still strips all defs related to combat etc, it causes you to take double damage and it gives you a very long stun, Inquisition is still easy to pull of and when combined with a soulless tarrot is exceptionally powerful. If it wasnt worth using then why may I ask do you continue to use it constantly in combination with a soulless tarrot?



To help you understand spectator:

What ekard is saying is

Inquisition has had no combat downgrade what so ever.

It has been downgraded in the area that it can no longer be used to make people pray.

This is a perfect and good downgrade.