That's what they DON'T say though. The ones that go to Moon are all "yay, I'm so glad, take me to Moon please". The ones that go to Night are "oh, it's time for my tah'vrai is it? Fine". It's fundamentally different no matter how much people try to skirt around that.

as for the fae, the fae who wish to go to night feel an obligation. Its not HAVE to like they are forced, its HAVE to, the same way you HAVE to get good grades in school.

Because there is more to the difference between Celest and Magnagora than just one being tainted and one not. At least to an outsider, it seems that they have clearly different mindsets and beliefs on what is right and wrong, what is justified and what is not, what their purpose is and who they are as people.

I've lost any sense of that between Glomdoring and Serenwilde. I really have to agree with Xenthos, the only thing that seems to make us different to Glomdoring is that BECAUSE we can't tolerate the wyrd, we are more forceful to the fae.

I'd say Fallen's probably the closest to accurate, even if he did butcher Night's and Crow's teachings.

Part of it, Elryn, is that we have indeed set about redefining ourselves. The DoC is dead and gone. We've purged as many traces of the old regime as we could. So, yes, there's going to be some jostling while we become what we really want to be.

Glomdoring is very introspective. Foreigners causing issues? Well, cut them off. Snub them. Simply stop acknowledging them.

Serenwilde is very in-your-face imperial. Foreigners causing issues? Subjugate them. Force them to either run away from you, or acknowledge a debt to you.

I think what you're looking for is a difference in opinion over the fae and natural life. Truth be told, the differences are very few and very subtle. Speaking completely OOC here, the wyrd, as far as I can tell, is a cosmic fertilizer--trees grow really, really fast in it. Sometimes too fast for their own good, and they get a little bent out of shape. One sees it as strange and foreign and corrupting, the other sees it as the ultimate triumph over the taint. Both see the fae as free individuals. Both would prefer to see all the fae swear allegiance to their own side. In this instance, it would be wrong to say "Serenwilde this" or "Glomdoring that." As far as I know, the official government policies of both institutions are identical (or Nejii's lying through his teeth to me to avert raids--equally possible).

I don't think peace is out of the question for the two organizations. Not in the slightest.

Just to clarify this, everything I told you was correct, you just didn't ask the important questions.

EDIT: Also, whoever said the reason we treat the Fae more forcefully is because Glomdoring is tainted is EXACTLY right. That's the sole difference. If Glomdoring were cleansed Serenwilde wouldn't really have any objection to letting the Fae go there if they wanted.

Oh, I think we could -easily- make peace and alliance. All Serenwilde has to do is start saying the Wyrd is different, but fine, and we can essentially merge into a super-commune of 6 classes.

It's not finding common ground that is my problem, its finding what is left to make us different.

At the moment, all we have is repeating the mantra that the Wyrd is bad... just because it is. It's not the taint any more, the fae don't get hurt by it anymore, saplings mean our forests can merge fine without causing a cosmic implosion, and so on.

What Fallen said is true, we have differences in the teachings between our spirits, but it is really no more than that between Hart and Moon, or Night and Crow.

That would be me (though I said it was because of the Wyrd).

(And by the way, CURSE THIS THREAD. It has kept me up far too late now. )

But that has always been true..

Just read my public posts to Gregori some 30 IC years ago about him being a great disciple of Night and Crow...




Umm, it was cleansed, the result was the Wyrd. Its a much better cleansing than Celest or Serenwilde has ever done...

No. Before, Glomdoring following the teachings of Mother Night and Brother Crow meant Glomdoring enslaving, killing and torturing Fae, sending Brother Crow to pwn Brother Hart, and so forth. These days, because the game has been changing to compensate for Glomdoring's shifting RP the Fae don't consider Night having them to be "enslaving" them, Glomdoring doesn't have to kill Fae at all, and the whole Crow-Hart quest isn't even -there.-

Whether this is a good or a bad thing is a more complicated subject, but that's how it is, and how it is is not how it was.

EDIT: And obviously the Wyrd is still the Taint, since there is no actual difference that isn't aesthetic. Serenwilde and Celest are incapable of changing it, you're right, as only a Divine of the correct circle can do that (as Viravain was doing before Raezon screwed it up.)

Psh, I didn't butcher their teachings.

Crow is all about never admitting weakness, never admitting you ever failed, which means you were always powerful. He is the anti-thesis to Hart. He is all about the glory of the self. (noted by his vanity)

Night is also all about control and subterfuge. Whether its becoming invisible, or appearing to be 18 and more beautiful than you really are. Or manipulating shadows into whatever you need. Again, Night is the anti-thesis to Moon. She is all about control of destiny.

I really don't see how you can say I butchered them. I didn't expound upon them point-for-point, but what I listed is what they are about in a generalized way.



Um.. hello? 2 Divine did it again. Viravain & Isune.

Why is Sane Viravain doing it = unTainted, but Insane Viravain doing it = stillTainted?

Its funny you say that, because inside glomdoring, we have never, as far as I know killed and tortured fae. I know that at the begining our quest made us kill fae, but that was quickly changed save for some bugs. Viravain has ALWAYS been mad at Rowenna (seemingly for who she is and what she did in the past)

There were once people like Visaeris and Guido and for a short period Nyla who wanted to go all Kill burn, but the official Glomdoring leadership never did that.

That would be like me claiming to you that Serenwilde has always be a supporter of Cities and Celest, and only hates the Taint because the Supernals do.

The only thing that is changing is that what Glomdoring has always said, is now being recognized as true by those outside of Glomdoring.

Actually...

The taint primarily affected fauna with mutations while leaving the flora either incapable of living (nutrient depletion? I dunno) or unaffected. The wyrd does not affect the fauna, but causes flora to grow at an unchecked pace.

That is historically wrong.

The 'tainted' verison before the Wyrd was the actual cleansed verison of Glomdoring. The Wyrd is result for Glomdoring to become something better, stronger by the works of Viravain and Isune - it wasn't cleansed a second time to become the Wyrd.

I'd like to add one more observation, and please don't take this the wrong way.

It seems to me almost that Glomdoring over the past months is gradually becoming in effect an untainted Gloriana, but without an excess of overly 'dark', destructive or dominating elements that would keep it distinct from Serenwilde. That's not Glomdoring's fault, or Serenwilde's... it is just what seems to be happening.

I know from talking with some Gloms that Glomdoring has a similar view to Serenwilde on undeath (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). They have a similar view on cities. They have the same view that nature (however it is defined) needs to be balanced, and that the fae should be respected and revered. The list seems to go on.

Here's a question: Should Serenwilde start changing its beliefs to try and differ more from Glomdoring?

Edit: I really wanted Serenwilde to start working on its insular, more mystical and elitist image now that a lot of the big combatants seem to be going, but Glomdoring seems to be working in that direction too. I -don't- see Serenwilde as more overt and reliant on brute force. Reading the histories, I always thought of us as a sort of reclusive little sect, very snobby. Its just that now Glomdoring seems to be going down that path, and I'm all confused.

Why can't Serenwilde and Glomdoring be similar? Though, I think they are very different. Glomdoring is based around its culture, which all based around its heart. Serenwilde, on the other hand, doesn't seem to give much of a weevil's ass about its great spirits.

In Glomdoring, the Spirits come first, then the fae. In Serenwilde, its the opposite. You never hear about White Hart or Mother Moon in regular discussions in the Serenwilde, rather, they're each confined to their own guilds, and even then, at least in Hartstone, they're on the back burner.

I know the Serenguard don't care about Moon or Hart.
I know Hartstone doesn't care about Moon (Nessa actually hates Moondancers, and doesn't trust them, nor does she think Druids should have anything to do with ethereal)
And I never hear much from the Moondancers about Hart.
Its basically all about the fae, for reasons that are really superficial and "They are ooooours!" It has nothing to do with the teachings of the Greater Spirits and more with Ellindel.

Glomdoring, on the other hand, is totally different. Their Spirits are part of day to day life, and are the emphasis for everyone pretty much. The fae are important because they are spirits of nature, yes, but really, Glomdoring can (and has in the past) ignore them if it suits them.

I'd call those fairly large differences.

Yes. This is what I am talking about. You killed Fae because your quests made you. Then it was changed so you didn't have to. And so forth.



I'm not sure if you were actually there for the event, but the first time, Viravain actually had parts of the forest restored to untainted Gloriana, before Raezon persuaded her to go try it all in one go with the seal and all hell broke loose.

The second time, nothing actually changed. Viravain wasn't trying to cleanse the Taint; she was trying to make it stronger.

That is not how it appeared when the Wyrdling starting flying and spreading the Mauve wyrd, and the fae starting shouting and singing, but whatever.

@Fallen: Your first statement about crow being "power now" is a bit innacurate. It can be quite complicated by I personally see the sense of Hunger and the False memory as things showing a sense of Mind over Matter.

I was. I was in the room when the Seal broke.

And is it just your opinion that Viravain was trying to make the Taint stronger the second time, or was that actually said?

Crow teaches patience, stoicism, self-definition, and confidence. In that order, if you're making a circle in the Nest.



Hrm. Rephrased like that, I guess it's less of a butchering and more placing emphasis where the Dancers normally don't.

I don't mean power as in physical raw power, but enlightenment, truth, and understanding. More of a "Knowledge is Power" relation.

Hart teaches the slow road to true enlightenment. Crow teaches the quick road to percieved enlightenment. OOCly speaking.