I think you are mistaken as you are leaving out a whole bunch of things that you probabbly never really cared about. Such as the disablities both Isune and Viravain had in regards to the Taint, and the method in which they tried to solve it, and then the trickery that happened (which was an aside to the whole Taint issue)

Lisaerea + Viravain = recreation of Gloriana
Isune + Viravain = creation of Wyrd

The attempts to cleanse Glomdoring with Lisaera failed, the attempts to cleanse Glomdoring with Isune suceeded. I have a few theories as to why that was, but nobody likes my illusion theory even though it works so well

Actually said. I know Isune's said as much, anyway. I'm pretty sure Viravain acknowledges it as what happened too, but I don't talk to Her much so I can't say for certain.

And funny how you mention we pay less attention to the Spirits than the Fae actually, there's been arguments about that just recently.
I don't think it's quite the difference Elryn was looking for though. EDIT: Oh, or maybe it is.

EDIT: Could you back those statements up please Daganev? I'd like to know where you come up with it.

A lot of that is due to Serenwilde failures, more than anything. The difference being that we've never really sorted out our RP issues together - if I remember correctly the way we fought ourselves out of the initial chaos was to define ourselves by what we are against, and what we believed in. The Moondancers being against taint being the most obvious example, and their reverence for the fae.

However, these conflicts are being eroded as Glomdoring gradually becomes more and more like ourselves, the fae and spirits lessening their approval and support.

A wise person just mentioned that perhaps the solution is for Serenwilde to now withdraw into ourselves, and focus on building up our foundations properly. I have to agree.

Edit: While I love Lisaera's work, it might also help for us to have some dedicated RP gods for a while as well. Elcyrion was -awesome- in just giving us a sense of direction, and hopefully some of the groundwork for RP that he started to lay will pay off, but he wasn't with us for very long.

Yeah, I read the last couple posts, but didn't bother looking back at all of them. I just remember going rounds with the Serenwilde back in the day because Jairdan was an absolute Hart-Zealot, and everyone else was like "Awww, let love and fae-kisses be your guide!"

The frustration with that lead me to released OOC frustration at people who didn't deserve it, but eh.

Lisaera did NOT have any hand with recreating Gloriana. She was merely watching Viravain do her work, as was Raezon. Viravain was doing fine on her own in recreating Gloriana, until Raezon decided to see what would happen if this happened... which resulted in the recreated/'cleansed' Glomdoring. Isune wanted to make Glomdoring beautiful, remove the corrosiveness of the taint - as she saw taint - while Viravain tried to make it more powerful - as she didn't see the taint. The Wyrd is merely a evolved power of what the recreated/'cleansed' Glomdoring was - with the Wyrdling infusing the Wyrd, as it does not at all have the power to cleanse Glomdoring as Viravain did.

Ah, didn't know you had a character in Serenwilde right now.

EDIT: that was at Fallen.

I've got a lowbie, because I was considering making a new hartstone (because i'm looking to make an actual combat character for a change), but then saw Nessa somehow got GM, and after about an hour of tears, I thought it better not to

Please, let's not argue about what the Wyrd is, what Nature is, or how the Wyrd relates to Taint ICly.

We'll just go round in circles.

Edit: Anyway, I'm just not sure where we should be defining our direction. I really, really don't want two Serenwildes, or two Glomdorings I should say... but it seems inevitable.

Until the fae abandoned us, we could still maintain a semblence of identity, but I think we've just lost the plot entirely. Well, maybe not Serenwilde - I shouldn't give that impression, I'm sure for most people it isn't a problem - but for me, I'm just really confused. (And I've been taking out my frustration on the Gloms, sorry!)

Since the day glomdoring opened, Serenwilde has acted like Rowenna's Diaries and Glomdoring has acted like Lolly's last conversation with the moondancers before Celest went BOOM.

It has probabbly caused much confusion. However, Glomdoring has had direct things to know its direction, while if I remember correctly, Serenwilde had mostly fighting about how to read the histories.

The things you see in the histories I believe are things that are true for all communes, and not just true about the people who its written about.

You could argue, that Rowenna's increase of Power and drive to serve kethuru is the same mindset that a powerhungry (in terms of territory conquest) Serenwilde had, that made them act virtually the same way.

I am sure if you walk around Serenwilde, and think about only things you find in Serenwilde, and how they all fit together you will get a good idea of a direction to go. (i.e. ignore etherseren, and faethorn and the surrounding territories in prime)

I'm always reminded of the SE corner of Glomdoring, as a sign of how things -don't work- in glomdoring. (Mutated Mushrooms, buildings, mind control zombies, chasms, great things)

I think that maybe Serenwilde should look to itself and work on the internal problems. I mean no offense when I say this but...Serenwilde...is over populated. Well, from my perspective anyway. I think that Serenwilde should work on becoming united, more so than they sort of are. A commune has a common goal, a common want and need, no? To protect and care for nature. And in this instance to protect and care for the Spirits, lesser and greater, as well. The two communes can still be individual, but is it wrong for them to perhaps try to get along and work with each other to protect and care for nature and the fae?

Serenwilde is working towards that. It seems that a lot of people, when they don't really know how to act in an RPG, seem to choose Glomdoring... we keep having trouble with the dumbest people (not dumb as in people don't know what they are doing, I like those people. Dumb, like using the commune aether constantly to say things like "OOOWWWW!!!!! These rockeaters HHUUUURRRTTTT!!!! Their MEEEEEAAAANNN!!!"). Finding a common goal is hard, since the Moondancers and Hartstone seem always at each other's throats, but we're working on it.

EDIT: "That" being internal unity and such.

I dunno what to tell ya, Elryn, its hard to say.

But Serenwilde has just never seemed to care about itself. Its been "We hate the taint!" and "We protect the fae!" Glomdoring, on the other hand, can stand on its own feet. Serenwilde seems to need the crutches of other things. That is definitely a bit problematic.

I mean, it was sad, when Blacktalon finally came around, within a couple months, they have more depth than Hartstone...and Hartstone had been around since the beginning.

But no one seemed to care.

Serenwilde reminds me a lot of the early glomdoring--everyone has their own agendas. You've got the Celestians wearing leaves, you've got the City haters, you've got the everyone lovers, you've got the taint haters, you've got the completely neutral scholars..

I'm not even saying this is completely the players fault (though, in Hartstone's case, I will blame the players).

You've had conflicting messages.

Lisaera and Auseklis were complete opposites. Lisaera hated the Taint, where Auseklis said "Meh, its part of Nature now" and hated cities, where as Lisaera snuggled on occasion with Hajamin.

Its really tough to form an identity when nothing you get is constant.

I dunno how many people still remember the Grutina incident, but even that was anti-unification. One of the theories Dain told the Druids was that Grutina and her cohorts may have attempted to wield the powers of both Moon and Hart, and it turned them into her "thralls" and drove them insane, and so they tried to take over the Serenwilde.

They were killed and buried throughout the forest, but also erased from history. They were a secret of the Hartstone (which never would have seen light if Jairdan hadn't run to Merloch with the story despote Niara telling everyone who knew about it to leave the commune in the dark)

And the second theory was that the Druids were attempting to purge the Taint, and ended up being consumed by it.

The lesson at the end of the event was to not be so concerned with who your enemy was outside the forest, but to look watch your back for the people within.

Throughout Serenwilde's history, keeping wedges between the guilds seems to have been the norm. Unfortunately. But I suppose, in a way, that's your signature?

Some of that is true. Not quite as bad as you make out, but somewhat true. Part of the problem is that we haven't had a single coherent guide from our divine like Glomdoring has. Part of the problem is that we're saddled with forestal archetypes from other games, and an unwillingness to form a unique identity for ourselves. We have relied on external forces to define ourselves, as I said.

I also think (and I'm stealing Shiri's phrase) that Glomdoring's playerbase wanting to play 'the good guys' has been disastrous for us. The continual push (sometimes from admin, sometimes players) away from the final Glomdoring of the history to a more enlightened, neutral commune leaves us with little distinctiveness. Its not a bad thing, but it has really highlighted the flaws in our previous approach.

That was an unusually insightful post for these forums.

Except, Serenwilde isn't anything like the final Serenwilde in the histories either. In essence, Serenwilde and Glomdoring switched places.

Serenwilde was supposed to be the isolationist "leave us alone, we don't like any of you" sort, who didn't trust the cities and only cared about their own survival and personal/spiritual/intellectual growth.

Glomdoring was supposed to be the wrathful commune of conquest.

However, when Glomdoring came out, Serenwilde already had the "Rawr! We rule the Basin!" thing going on, so to keep them from being clones, the Divine had to take it in the opposite direction, the direction that Serenwilde had forsaken since the day of Nikua.

Glomdoring chose to play the "good guys" because Serenwilde took the role Glomdoring was meant to have. There wasn't much choice in the matter.

But personally, I like that. I always thought it should be the corrupt guys who are in the pretty place and the 'good' guys who are in the wicked looking place.

It blurs the lines, however, in this case, I think it was Serenwilde choosing to play the expansionistic forest that brought about our current situation.

I think that its good there are some people trying to unite and I can understand that it may be hard for Hartstone and Moondancers to find a common ground, Serenguard kind of just able to go with both since they should be the guardians of the forest. I think the reason why BlackTalon and Shadowdancers are able to work together, etc, is because it doesn't matter if you dislike a shadowdancer/blacktalon, you'll get your ass out there and do whatever is need to better Glomdoring. That's the whole mentality behind "Nothing Matters but Glomdoring." Glomdoring comes before all. If Serens would feel that the Wilde and the spirits came before their feelings maybe they could find that common ground?

I hate you forums...anyway, that's if for me tonight. 1 day and 6 hours left for school!! (Stupid final exams)

Every historic example of human culture wants to be the good guy. Any push you see in that direction is, in fact, simply good RP. Not everyone has the same idea of good, however. Glomdoring will never be the Celestian crusader-ish good. Glomdoring has its own little standards which have made it a rather moderate organization. It's rather hard to be diametrically opposed to a rather moderate organization.

I wasn't saying that was a bad, thing, by the way. It's just that (for example) if you compare Glomdoring to Magnagora...Magnagora doesn't care if it looks good. It just does whatever the hell it wants, enslaves/kills whatever it feels like, and doesn't need to justify it. It's just how it works. Glomdoring doesn't do that stuff anymore. It only does what it can justify itself doing, and it's become more restrictive with how it tries to justify itself. For example, Glooms not kidnapping Fae who want to come to Serenwilde. Magnagora doesn't give a crap about that, so it's a lot easier to oppose them. Glomdoring does, so it's harder.

From what I remember before I left, Viravain could not even SEE the taint, much less cared if it was there or not, after her contact with Kethuru.

How can you cleanse something you can't see or acknowledge the existence of? I wasn't here for any even between Isune and Viravain, so could someone fill me in as to what they were trying to do?

Well, times change. You're British. You live in a country that we used to regard as the pinnacle of corruption and inhumane practices. Now our countries are decent allies.