RP vs Griefing

by Forren

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2006-06-09 14:09:52
It would only be griefing if you did it at every chance you got, and you goal was to make the player's life miserable. As it is, you DID in fact offer to raise them, you just had stipulations. Its all good.
Geb2006-06-09 14:36:04
QUOTE(Ashteru @ Jun 9 2006, 02:56 PM) 296046

One would be following it's role in the history, the other not being a general ass.


Funny, because I have seen plenty of times where the other side has picked up corpses of Celest's citizens and not given them back. Heck, just yesterday the corpses of the people who died trying to kill Ladantine in the cave were not handed over to Celest for resurrections or immolation. So I guess being a general #%$ is prevalent on all sides according to your statement.

I see death and praying as a possible consequence of combat. If a person is not willing to deal with the consequences, then the person should seek to limit his/her risks of experiencing the consequences or avoid the action that may cause the consequences in the first place. It is not the responsibility of the other side to reduce the consequences of your actions for you. This is especially true when you seek to harm the other side with your every waking breath.
Ashteru2006-06-09 14:43:55
QUOTE(geb @ Jun 9 2006, 02:36 PM) 296057

Funny, because I have seen plenty of times where the other side has picked up corpses of Celest's citizens and not given them back. Heck, just yesterday the corpses of the people who died trying to kill Ladantine in the cave were not handed over to Celest for resurrections or immolation. So I guess being a general #%$ is prevalent on all sides according to your statement.

I see death and praying as a possible consequence of combat. If a person is not willing to deal with the consequences, then the person should seek to limit his/her risks of experiencing the consequences or avoid the action that may cause the consequences in the first place. It is not the responsibility of the other side to reduce the consequences of your actions for you. This is especially true when you seek to harm the other side with your every waking breath.

*shrug* You call it as you want, you can hold it as you want. I generaly don't take corpses/destroy them unless the person really annoyed me.
I just think it's unnecessary to do that to anyone.
Unknown2006-06-09 15:13:33
Giving corpses back to the enemy looks bad to me. Why would it happen? It's OOC based rationale.
Ferlas' approach is very appealing to me - don't want to make others sad, leave the corpses alone. Don't go out of your way to cause more xp loss (which is sort of OOC anyway).
Murphy2006-06-09 15:17:23
I disagree kashim, giving corpses back is the sporting and honourable thing to do.

If your character is honourable, you return the corpses of your enemy, to the enemy as it has been done in RL history
Unknown2006-06-09 15:22:26
Can't really compare it like that - corpses IRL stay dead, and were being given back to bury - not to troll around again.

As for the sport, what is Lusternia to your character - a world, or just an arena? Murphy may have a weird approach to life, but that would be quite exceptional.
Unknown2006-06-09 16:03:55
QUOTE(Murphy @ Jun 9 2006, 11:17 AM) 296071

If your character is honourable, you return the corpses of your enemy, to the enemy as it has been done in RL history
As kashim pointed out that's not quite equivalent.

The equivalent would be giving back wounded and captured, which in times of war, if both sides are honorable would be pressed into POW camps, not shipped back seconds after the fighting.

Edit:Certainly the Ur'guard and Paladins seem to have some sort of strange mutual respect between them though, with strong ties to being honorable in combat, so it is understandable at times. During a subsequent raids though...?

Ultimately it is up to the individual characters and players how benevolent they wish to be, for good or ill.

I at least don't find any reason to scream 'griefer' or 'zomg! y u do dat?' or something similarly lame in this circumstance.
Murphy2006-06-09 16:09:41
QUOTE(Kashim @ Jun 10 2006, 01:22 AM) 296076

Can't really compare it like that - corpses IRL stay dead, and were being given back to bury - not to troll around again.

As for the sport, what is Lusternia to your character - a world, or just an arena? Murphy may have a weird approach to life, but that would be quite exceptional.


Murphy respects combatants and recognises talent no matter what their affiliation, and yes his view on life is weird, not to mention he views himself as divine amongst other things.
Forren2006-06-09 16:25:36
Glad to hear you're alright Athana, hehe.

I have never had anyone return my corpse. Ever. Murphy killed me a few times when I was around level 45 on the water plane, I've been jumped and forced to pray by Athana/Ixion, and just the other day I joined a group on prime attacking a Mag group and they would not remove the eye sigil so I could be sacrificed, so I was forced to pray. I guess that's part of the reason I set my stipulation.

The times when I've raided Nil, we end up having to kill people around level 50ish who can't conglutinate. We always offer them to someone around for immolation.
ferlas2006-06-09 21:23:08
QUOTE(geb @ Jun 9 2006, 02:53 PM) 296045

You guys seem to want an Inquisition hammer your balls to the wall Celest. A Celest like that should not even be giving mercy to her enemies. OOC considerations about how much experience a person will lose should not even come into the picture. Simply put, each side should expect that no mercy will be given. Death to the Infidels and all of that Jazz should be in full effect. (Unless what you guys really want is Celest to be hard when it suits your purposes, but soft when it benefits you.)


Thats just silly. If this is true I should be and would be perfectly justified in griefing the asses of off celest serenwilde and glomdoring. I shouldn't and I would not be justified in anyway to grief anyone.

I really would like it if people just left the corpses, say your leaving them to rot or what ever but really Just leave them.

EDIT: Hell in a raid situation whats fun to do is pick up corpses and throw them towards the enemy, they get a res and everyones happy.
Geb2006-06-10 00:54:14
QUOTE(ferlas @ Jun 9 2006, 10:23 PM) 296161

Thats just silly. If this is true I should be and would be perfectly justified in griefing the asses of off celest serenwilde and glomdoring. I shouldn't and I would not be justified in anyway to grief anyone.

I really would like it if people just left the corpses, say your leaving them to rot or what ever but really Just leave them.

EDIT: Hell in a raid situation whats fun to do is pick up corpses and throw them towards the enemy, they get a res and everyones happy.


First, how in the world is not handing a person's corpse over griefing? If that is the case, that would make many of your own citizens griefers by your use of the word. Plenty of times they have killed people and not handed over the corpses. Second, Perhaps you should first seek to get your own side to stop doing what you feel is so reprehensible, before you try to point fingers at our side calling us griefers.
Unknown2006-06-10 01:38:13
I think if you go out of your way to raid then if I get to kill you which means taking the time to stop doing what ever I was doing then you deserve to die in turn you might pray. Its not like I killed you for no reason or we had a duel, you decided to go to enemy territory and attack what ever we are protecting meaning that you should face the consequence. Like was said earlier going out of your way to continually make that person pray would probably be grieving but if they come to you with aggressive actions like raiding then there dieing is not your responsibility.
Tiran2006-06-10 08:20:52
QUOTE(Forren @ Jun 9 2006, 10:25 AM) 296091

Glad to hear you're alright Athana, hehe.

I have never had anyone return my corpse. Ever. Murphy killed me a few times when I was around level 45 on the water plane, I've been jumped and forced to pray by Athana/Ixion, and just the other day I joined a group on prime attacking a Mag group and they would not remove the eye sigil so I could be sacrificed, so I was forced to pray. I guess that's part of the reason I set my stipulation.

The times when I've raided Nil, we end up having to kill people around level 50ish who can't conglutinate. We always offer them to someone around for immolation.


Try level 75ish and can't conglutinate. And I don't recall getting my corpse sent back for immolation that time on Earth either. It's just a fact that if you're raiding or defending, you should always be prepared for the possibility of dying and having to pray. While it's nice if the other side gives the corpse back, it's by no means a requirement. I'd say that it's really only griefing outside of the raiding/defending situations, like jumping or teaming someone in neutral or friendly territory when they've got nothing to do with the situation.
Verithrax2006-06-10 11:33:29
QUOTE(Forren @ Jun 9 2006, 05:28 AM) 295949

Alright, so the last few hours Magnagora and Celest have been busy dealing with the recent Seawolf victory in the Inner Sea. At the start of it, a group of Celestians went to attack Ladantine and were greeted by a bunch of Magnagoran defenders. We were slaughtered, and practically all of us were forced to pray.

I logged for a bit and ate some food... when I came back, a group was assembling to attack them in the Inner Sea. We go and kill most of the Magnagorans there, forcing some to pray (including Athana, who we'll come to later..)

A little while later, the same thing happens, this time inside the Ship of the Dead. We go in, attack, and end up having casualties on both sides. Athana ends up dying again. She asks if I can hand over the corpse. I say yes, with a gold amount and a promise to stop hunting the Tidal Lords. She goes ahead and prays.

Where does RP end and grief begin? Did I cross the line? I feel awful now.

Sorry Athana sad.gif

Actually, the very notion of you handing out corpses for immolation freely is bad RP. If you want to be nice, and you should be, it's much better form to simply not pick up the corpses in the first place.
Rauros2006-06-10 19:03:09
Geb, it's obvious that when they don't give back our corpses, it's not griefing, because we have this little skill called "Sacrifice" that makes everyone immune to praying 99% of the time...

ferlas2006-06-11 00:26:15
QUOTE(geb @ Jun 10 2006, 01:54 AM) 296237

First, how in the world is not handing a person's corpse over griefing? If that is the case, that would make many of your own citizens griefers by your use of the word. Plenty of times they have killed people and not handed over the corpses. Second, Perhaps you should first seek to get your own side to stop doing what you feel is so reprehensible, before you try to point fingers at our side calling us griefers.


QUOTE

A Celest like that should not even be giving mercy to her enemies. OOC considerations about how much experience a person will lose should not even come into the picture. Simply put, each side should expect that no mercy will be given.


As I said thats just silly, if I were to act as you said show no mercy, put the boot in etc etc I would be perfectly justified in griefing the asses off of anyone and everyone but Im not, so its just plain silly.

Youll notice I didnt call anyone griefers or point fingers like your doing, you will notice I gave a lovely little idea that everone could easily follow to improve everyones game play and youll notice I just pointed out that the attitude of no mercy grief them is silly.

QUOTE(Rauros @ Jun 10 2006, 08:03 PM) 296400

Geb, it's obvious that when they don't give back our corpses, it's not griefing, because we have this little skill called "Sacrifice" that makes everyone immune to praying 99% of the time...




It does but whats your point?
Jack2006-06-11 00:34:20
QUOTE(Rauros @ Jun 10 2006, 08:03 PM) 296400

Geb, it's obvious that when they don't give back our corpses, it's not griefing, because we have this little skill called "Sacrifice" that makes everyone immune to praying 99% of the time...



See, that'd be funny if it wasn't true.

As it stands it just makes you look like a whiny lil' bitch.