I would choose Champion. I was one requesting that the special abilities and powers be removed. There are benefits to being a champion besides the special artifact. Yes, I have rescued people that had a lower level than I have when they were in some demesne or in trouble that they did not bring on themselves. I’ve always warned people that I would not rescue them if they instigated the trouble in the first place. If they want to start up something, then they have to deal with the consequences.

Bah, this is me. I some how got logged out.

Why are you no longer Champion now, Geb?

I wanted a rest. I also felt someone else should have a chance at the position. Last, I am not an Aquamancer anymore.

Wanted a rest, hmmm.... sounds like a tiring position doesn't it? Yep it is. Take away the perks and it becomes more exhausting, because you wonder why you are doing it.

There's also a reason why I took a year long reprieve from Lusternia.

Truthfully, any position in a game becomes a bit boring after awhile. Also things in the real world can get in the way and require a higher priority of attention than the game. Last, It is natural to eventually retire from a gaming position and allow someone else have a go at it. Very few people remain in the same position day in and day out when it comes to games like these.

Let's look at this argument from another angle.

There are a multitude of artifacts that you can purchase OOCly that will make your character far stronger in PK than ANY Guild Champion artifact will. Geb is a perfect example of this. Why aren't these bad and overpowered? Why should these exist? Because you purchase them with real money?

Well these same artifacts can be acquired by purchasing credits in game... or winning a bardic/artistic contest... or winning a lottery... or hell even for free in the case of Narsrim who got a Prism from a Gnome.

How are these situations different than winning an election that confers various responsibilities and a few negatives, in exchange for a temporary artifact, one that is not even bound to your character permanently?

Because it's different from what the other realms do? I'm sorry, this is a positive. Sounds more like people just like to whine because they are possibly jealous or envious.

First, you are making the argument that any of the artifacts that are purchasable are more powerful than say the Champion pets. I do not agree with your assertion for one. Second, yes purchasing them is better; because purchasing artifacts pay the bills. Champion artifacts do not bring revenue in, and no revenue means no Lusternia.

So you are trying to compare two different dynamics and also make an assertion that has not been agreed upon by everyone to prove your point that Champion artifacts should remain in the game. I do not agree with your assertions, nor do I care that you are labeling people whiners for not agreeing with you. The simple facts as I see them are that Champion artifacts and pets are not needed. They can be given for prestige and the rescue ability, but the other abilities are not needed for the Champion to function at his/her post. Also considering that they are not all weighted equally when it comes to power, I have given the suggestion that all of the abilities less Rescue be removed from them.

Agreed, it seems most champs dont see the need for overpowered pets and artifacts, I really think they should be downgraded.



Thats nonsense, admin get no perks and they do it. Guild masters get no perks and they do it, why do champs get perks then?

I also pointed out ways that those same artifacts could be earned entirely ICly without a dollar spent, through Artisinal and Bardic contests, lotteries, and random events. Furthermore, Champion positions is a distinguishing feature. Remove distinguishing features, and you don't have the means to attract a large enough playerbase to pay the bills to begin with.

As well, purchaseable artifacts are better then Guild Champion artifacts. Just look at what Runes do to Knights? The difference is vast, the bonus from the pets (in the case of Patchou) is miniscule.

While I do agree it was odd to not make the Champion Artifacts equal in power, I feel it adds more flavor for them to be distinctly different.

Also, my commenting on people whining was not directed at you, seeing as you have been a Champion prior (though it seems moreso you were complaining solely about Nil/Patchou/Handmaiden/Blackshuck and glossing over the obscene damage that can be attained with Mage staffs), but moreso at other people who have very little experience and who come off more so that they want to remove something they cannot have.

Having used Patchou, I can honestly say, she isn't that powerful, nor is it even remotely unbalancing. I've fought the Handmaiden, while it is annoying, and yes I know it's stronger, it really never bothered me. Maybe it could be brought down to the Horror and Patchou's level, but eh, wouldn't care either way. The pets also have the distinct disadvantage of being killed and losing their functionality for a day (or however long it is, I would often not bring Patchou to somewhere I was likely to die) whereas the Mage/Warrior artifacts are always there.




Admins have perks. They are running a game. They could be promoted to a God. They could become a payed employee. They could even run the next IRE realm (see the IRE corporate page).

Guild masters have perks. They run the guild. They decide policy with the GA. They vote and decide on policy in the Commune. They run the Commune.

Their perk is power and control.

I think the real problem with champ pets is Handmaiden/Grim, who can use blackout and mask soulless or other instakills.

What the Nil are you talking about? The Champion artifact is +15% or so to damage/wounding/speed (it used to be twice that, but then Roark found a bug and halved it). NO artifact you purchase will EVER match that (no artifacts do +15% speed OR damage). Don't forget that the +15% wounding rune can be stacked on top of that.

They changed the Champion Helms. It used to only up your skill level.

And I thought this was just about the Guardian Champions, seems people liked to ignore that the Warrior ones were more powerful? I assure you if it is indeed +15% damage/wounding/speed as you say it is, that is FAR more powerful than Patchou could even dream to be.

Regardless, the artifacts are here to stay, I really don't see them ever just removing them and leaving only rescue. It's been almost... 2 years? No changes in that time except the Warrior artifacts were buffed...

Your forgeting to mention the increase venom affliction rate as well. The champ helm and the pets are the most powerful artifacts around purchaseable or not.

Try this on for size:
Handmaiden with chance to blackout.
Angel invested only with vapors.

Hi, blackout!

I can not agree with that statement on any level what so ever, balance is important to the player combat part of the game.




The only people to really say they want overpowered champ pets to remain are you and lanko really everyone else has pretty much said either they dont care either way or they want them removed.



Guild admin I ment, what perks do they get? Don't know about you but ga and gc has as much of a vote on matters as the gm, so like remind me what perks do the ga and the gm get to make up for the guild champs artifact?

Not going to be getting many afflictions are you with only vapors?

P.S. They can die.

P.P.S. I already said Handmaiden's Blackout was far more powerful than Patchou.

NOTE: Im not just complaining about the champ pets although they are some of the most powerful things to deal with in the game, I would like removal or decreased effect of all champ artifacts.

Both of those are passive. That's when you start using active skills while the opponent is pretty much blacked out. I know you understand the difference between active and passive, due to being a Moondancer.

From a Tarot using Celestine, only thing you'd have to worry about with that setup is Aeon/Entangle/Love and a random weak mental affliction.

Sorry, but due to the awesome power of diagnose, and the limited direct damage of Celestines, I'm not going to die to that, and I hope you aren't going to either.