I'll just give you one example of how "sameness" can be a dividing factor: Shiite and Sunni Muslims. They diverged on ONE belief waaay back in the day. That's it. One little point. And now they hate eachother, even though almost every other aspect of their relegion is pretty much identical.

Ok.. a second one: Christians and Jews (as well as Muslims, really) hold the same core to their religions. Namely the Old Testament. They, again, diverge at a point that revolves around a single figure.

Yeah.. same outlooks just ruin conflict, don't they?

That's fine. I'm sure there are lots of realworld cases where people are willing to fight over something without ANY differences in their beliefs.

That doesn't make it fun.

But all of those that you've listed don't share the same outlook. They may have similar roots in religion or whatever, but their views on such vary, which is what makes them different. If their views were exactly the same, THERE WOULD BE NO CONFLICT. Obviously they have difference in what they see and view about each other, religion, and whatever the hell they want to disagree about. There is no conflict without disagreement, and no disagreement without a difference in views.

Shiite and Sunni Muslims have less difference than Seren and Glom. While Christians and Jews probably have a comparable level.

I hate Jaidon.

Who can't play fair.

But that doesn't change the fact they STILL HAVE DIFFERENCES.

I didn't say there were no differences. In fact.. I pointed out where they diverged.

I said "sameness". "Sameness" does not equal identical.

I also said "same outlooks" outlooks does not, in any way, equal "same everything"

And you're really just picking at semantics. Rather than same, i'll change it to similar, better?

It doesn't make my point any less valid. Elryn is gripping because Serenwilde and Glomdoring are similar because it supposedly makes conflict too hard.. I just pointed out that the two largest conflicts in human history are between peoples that are very, very similar.

No I'm not. Conflict is easy, you walk up to a newbie, point cudgel, and get enemied to an organization.

I said its not enjoyable, and its frustrating. I want to have four independent, unique organizations. Not two beautifully unique cities and then the green and purple communes which work together against everyone else. Glomdoring HAD an intricate, complex and original role. Now its Serenwilde with different skills.

I mean, if Magnagora decided they would do the same, they could take on the principles of the Light, get the descriptions of taint changed so that it is only cosmetic differences layered upon normal, decent folk, and get Nil readjusted so they were just meaner supernals. They can profess respect and deference to Celestia, and rather than actually tainting angels they can just convince them they are serving the light better by helping on Nil. Obviously Elohora will decree that the Light is neutral to both Celest and Magnagora, and that if Celest continues to hurt Magnagora they will be banished from her good favour.

The whole scenario is so farfetched because the Light/Taint differences are well-explained, and both cities have wonderfully adapted to the roles they were provided with.

Oh, in that case, invent reasons to hate the other place. Change yourself, instead of them. Those reasons don't even have to be based on fact or history. Spread rumors and lies, call them all sorts of names, use them as a scapegoat. The possiblities for creating conflict are endless. Or if that doesn't appeal to you, attempt to create peace with one org, and go to war with another. I.e., serenwilde and glomdoring create a temporary alliance to remove the plauge of the cities from the basin.

edit: this was meant to be directed at Fallen.
Also, to Elryn- Make history, and make differences. Don't just go, "eep, they've changed to become like us so much, I can't find conflict", do something about it, either make peace, or make war.

See, personally, I find the similarity between Glomdoring and Serenwilde much more interesting.

But then again, i'm a writer, and so I treat my characters as just that--characters. I enjoy putting my characters through hell, and I enjoy the intricate quirks that being in a conflict with someone so similar brings about.

Its far more enjoyable than "Light vs Dark" any day of the week, because it actually takes thought and immersion to become a part of.

Here's a question. If that was true, why don't you get along with Nessa? Doesn't it provide a perfect opportunity for your character to develop in an interesting way through the interpersonal conflict? You might not oocly agree with her actions or policies, but shouldn't that be inconsequential because you are having a blast bouncing off her in your character?

I find the 'Light vs Dark' mentality as unoriginal and boring as you do, and that's not what I want. But by the same token, I find complete similarity with only minor quirks as the only basis for organizational conflict just as boring. I'm sure some would find it enthralling to play a game where a bunch of liberals square off against a bunch of conservatives and together try to find the right social policies for a country. I don't. I really want to play a game where I can take part in conflicts which are truly epic - that's why I enjoy fantasy. Each role is colourful, bold, distinctive and has something very important to be passionate about. If my character fights so that he gets a little more power than his enemy, or so that there's a little less gloomy forest as opposed to silvery forest, I'm not really enjoying myself at all. Sure, I could still be creative and theatrical, but I could do that in a historical RP-mud set in the french courts of europe. What I get in Lusternia is so much more, that sense of urgency, excitement, passion and ultimately a sense of epic adventure.

While it might be interesting philosophically to have few differences that are not invented by our characters, as a game, I find it lacking.

Okay, two things.

First, using real-life beliefs as examples, Bad. It's silly because the parallels and analogies don't hold water. It's two entirely different contexts.

Second, speaking as the only one here who is actually in Magnagora, I can say that Magnagora is militaristic, yes, and while it's not fundamentally evil by itself, it's selfish and has a lot of sadistic and even evil people in it.

1. Ive needed a levitate and cleanse enchantment for 2 YEARS GIMMIE A BREAK! stop ignoreing me magnagora! I know you have enchanters!!!!
2. Im tired of being blamed for the no non-wyrden in the forest, ITS NOT MY FAULT
3. Where the is the bloody glomdoring military I WANT A VILLAGE, AND I WANT ACTIVE RAIDS COMON! I CANT DO IT BY MYSELF!
4. If one more person askes me who Daereth is am im going to bash their head in
5. Nerf Tae'dae health! COMON you cant kill something with that high health and sips for over 800! without an insta kill! NOT EVERYONE HAS THE CREDITS FOR INSTA-KILLS!
6. Im tired of being kicked out of shallach, JUST BECUSE ITS TAINTED DOESNT MEAN YOU OWN IT!
7. I want to hunt water and earth for essence! WHERE IS THE ESSENCE LOVE FOR GLOMDORING!
8. People who shout stupid should go kill themselves! IF ITS STUPID DONT SAY IT! (aka: Kalodan)
9. The spaming advertisements on market have gotta out of control, STOP RYMING YOUR ADS ITS RETARTED!
10. Where is the action glomdoring! I WANT SOME ACTION! not everyone wants to be neutraly lazy!
11. My system keeps looping myrtle, then when I fix that, it loops faeleaf and choleric! GIVE ME A BREAK!
12. Stop compareing Daereth to Weylin! Daereth does more than Weylin does!
13. If one more person gives me the "im gonna hunt you down" speech im gonna go insane!
14. IM TIRED OF BEING CALLED TAINTED! IM NOT TAINTED! YOU

I think im done....

I that you have a heart-shaped moon in your avatar. It's so cute!

I actually loved bouncing off of Nessa ICly. It was when she brought OOC crap into the mix that it started to go downhill. I stuck with Jairdan through all the conflicts with Nessa. It was, in the end, issues between me and Ibaesha on a personal level that caused an end to Jairdan.

If it had simply been Nessa's character I was clashing against, it would have been fine, but it was her player too, which is what drove me to really dislike her. But it wasn't her that ended Jairdan, not by a long shot. My clashings with her actually caused Jairdan to grow by leaps and bounds.



But, in the beginning, didn't you want a dark Gloriana to return? I thought I remember you saying that, that you had wanted Gloriana to return because it was a darker version of Serenwilde, that could be allied with despite its arms-length creating differences?

I was wondering when this was going to come up, I almost thought I might not have ranted enough! Yes, I wanted untainted Gloriana so that it wouldn't automatically ally with Magnagora. I wanted the two Spirits to be insane, and the whole ethos of the commune incredibly dark and violent.

The irony is we now have untainted Gloriana, but no corresponding dark/corruptive/insane philosophy to counter it.

Edit: If the rumours I hear are true, Glomdoring came out as tainted because it was feared most players wouldn't be able to pull off the darker aspects embedded into Glomdoring's role without the presence of those obvious mechanics. Unfortunately, it turns out they were right.

"We are strong because we say so, and we have always been strong, no matter what has actually happened in the past," isn't insane how? The spirits are insane, but Glomdoring is too introverted. If they started getting more involved with rest of the basin, it may reveal more of what you're searching for. But speech is much easier than action. This would require either, at least from my perspective, a, a person/people on the inside to start to change the glomdoring; b, a person/people from outside of Glomdoring forcing them to take a more active role in the basin, via violence or something like that; or c, a major divine run event.

But like I said, speech is easier than actions. I have no idea how to actually go about doing any of those ideas. (although, I would prefer if either options a or b could be used over c)

I don't think the rumors are true.. because how Glomdoring is now was very much supported by Viravain and Shikari. Also, it was in reaction to the attempts by people like Ethelon to make it a Mag-clone, and to fight that, people pushed far into the opposite direction. But really, Viravain and Shikari are the ones who have kept it from being the insane and violent. (for instance, it used to be legal in Glomdoring to kill anyone in the forest, including other commune mates, since it was all about no mercy, and you'd conglut anyway, but Shikaru put a stop to it). but I disagree if you're saying that the culture isn't very dark...

I hate people with excessively long signatures. Yes, this is directed at you Mirk. Cut down on the damn quotes!

That is true, I suppose. But there really don't appear to be any of the previous diabolical aspects left in Glomdoring, except verbally. What happened to viewing the fae as tools to be used and discarded, rather than revering and respecting them? Or the bloodlust of Crow in making his enemies suffer, as opposed to preferring non-violence, peace and pleasant relations? Where is the scorn with which all non-Wyrded forest/peoples are viewed, as weak and pathetic and in need of the power of Glomdoring? What happened to the willingness to use any and all means to further Glomdoring's aims, including the undead when necessary? Where is the belief that Wyrded nature is the epitome of perfection, and the old, stagnant nature has become irrelevant?

It may all be an act designed to woo Serenwilde into a false crisis of identity, but I doubt it. Always the people of Glomdoring I've spoken with IC and OOC seem to want to be an integral part of Nature to 'balance' Serenwilde and achieve the same aims. As Chron, I really, really, liked the potential for RP possibilities, and the players that have been in Glomdoring so far are absolutely awesome people... I just wish they wouldn't try so hard to muscle into Serenwilde's mindset.